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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        tinylk!1!170!104!chuck.mcknight@tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu (Chuck McKnight),
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Subject: TML Bundle #201: Msgs 2427-2440
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Jun 23 21:00:13 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #201: Table of Contents


-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2427  10-Jun-91 Dave Boddie       Source code for Zhodani word generator... << 
2428  10-Jun-91 ware@arc           << Reply to: Those Pesky Ships =============
2429  11-Jun-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN a test of sorts << I'm finally getting my mai
2430  12-Jun-91 kirsch@rhea.infor Problems: VARGR and ZHODANI word generators <
2431  12-Jun-91 Dan Corrin        FTP server down << As some of you may have no
2432  13-Jun-91 Dave Boddie       Re: Vargr and Zhodani word generator souce co
2433  13-Jun-91 gt4534b@prism.gat pop density << I was looking at my copy of th
2434  14-Jun-91 Rob Miracle       Re: Population Densities << >Would anyone car
2435  14-Jun-91 James T Perkins   DGP upcoming products << I had the occasion t
2436  14-Jun-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Arcologies, or, packing them in << There's a 
2437  18-Jun-91 bermuda!givler@cb Fifth Frontier War << Does anyone have a copy
2438  19-Jun-91 rem@oz.plymouth.e 2300 AD... << Our current referee, and one of
2439  19-Jun-91 George William He catching up << I've been gone for a bit. Some
2440  20-Jun-91 sm@ncrsecp.copenh  << Confirm Delivery: Yes Date: Thu, 20 Jun 9

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2427
Subject: Source code for Zhodani word generator...
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 17:04:29 CDT
From: Dave Boddie <dboddie@uafhp.uark.edu>

Here is the source for the Zhodani word generator...Like I said earlier, it is
shar'ed just like the Vargr program source...save this into a file, cut out the
header, and follow the shar instructions to uncompress it....

Hope ya like it!
Dave 


#---------------------------------- cut here ----------------------------------
# This is a shell archive.  Remove anything before this line,
# then unpack it by saving it in a file and typing "sh file".
#
# Wrapped by Dave (Unix Hero) <dboddie@uafhp> on Mon Jun 10 16:12:32 1991
#
# This archive contains:
#       zcon1.c         zcon2.c         zhodani.c       zhodani.doc     
#       zmain.c         zvow.c          
#

LANG=""; export LANG
PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:$PATH; export PATH

echo x - zcon1.c
cat >zcon1.c <<'@EOF'
/* this is the initial consonant table listing. */
 
extern char *init1[6][6] =      {
                                { "b","b","b","b","b","bl" },
                                { "bl","bl","br","br","br","br" },
                                { "br","ch","ch","ch","ch","ch" },
                                { "ch","ch","ch","ch","ch","ch" },
                                { "ch","cht","cht","cht","cht","cht" },
                                { "cht","cht","d","d","d","d" },
                                };
 
extern char *init2[6][6] =      {
                                { "d","d","d","d","d","dl" },
                                { "dl","dl","dl","dl","dl","dl" },
                                { "dr","dr","dr","dr","dr","f" },
                                { "f","f","f","f","fl","fl" },
                                { "fl","fr","fr","fr","j","j" },
                                { "j","j","j","j","j","jd" },
                                };
 
extern char *init3[6][6] =      {
                                { "jd","jd","jd","jd","k","k" },
                                { "k","k","k","kl","kl","kr" },
                                { "kr","l","l","l","m","m" },
                                { "n","n","n","n","n","n" },
                                { "n","n","p","p","p","p" },
                                { "p","p","p","pl","pl","pl" },
                                };
 
extern char *init4[6][6] =      {
                                { "pl","pl","pl","pl","pr","pr" },
                                { "pr","q","q","ql","ql","qr" },
                                { "qr","r","r","r","r","r" },
                                { "s","s","s","s","s","s" },
                                { "s","sh","sh","sh","sh","sh" },
                                { "sh","sh","sht","sht","sht","sht" },
                                };
 
extern char *init5[6][6] =      {
                                { "sht","sht","sht","t","t","t" },
                                { "t","t","st","st","st","st" },
                                { "st","st","st","tl","tl","tl" },
                                { "tl","tl","tl","tl","tl","tl" },
                                { "tl","ts","ts","ts","v","v" },
                                { "v","v","v","vl","vl","vr" },
                                };
 
extern char *init6[6][6] =      {
                                { "vr","y","y","y","z","z" },
                                { "z","z","z","zd","zd","zd" },
                                { "zd","zd","zd","zd","zd","zd" },
                                { "zd","zh","zh","zh","zh","zh" },
                                { "zh","zh","zhd","zhd","zhd","zhd" },
                                { "zhd","zhd","zhd","zhd","zhd","zhd" },
                                };
 
/* end of initial consonant initialization */
@EOF

chmod 644 zcon1.c

echo x - zcon2.c
cat >zcon2.c <<'@EOF'
/* this file contains the final consonant letters for the random word */
/* generator.                                                         */
 
extern char *final1[6][6] =     {
                                { "b","b","bl","bl","bl","bl" },
                                { "bl","bl","bl","br","br","br" },
                                { "br","br","br","br","ch","ch" },
                                { "ch","ch","ch","d","d","d" },
                                { "d","dl","dl","dl","dl","dl" },
                                };
 
extern char *final2[6][6] =     {
                                { "dr","dr","dr","f","f","f" },
                                { "f","f","fl","fl","fl","fl" },
                                { "fl","fr","fr","fr","fr","fr" },
                                { "j","j","j","j","k","k" },
                                { "kl","kl","kl","kl","kr","kr" },
                                { "l","l","l","l","l","l" },
                                };
 
extern char *final3[6][6] =     {
                                { "l","l","l","l","l","l" },
                                { "m","m","n","n","nch","nch" },
                                { "nch","nch","nch","nch","nch","nj" },
                                { "nj","nj","nj","nj","ns","ns" },
                                { "ns","ns","ns","nsh","nsh","nsh" },
                                { "nsh","nsh","nsh","nsh","nt","nt" },
                                };
 
extern char *final4[6][6] =     {
                                { "nt","nt","nts","nts","nts","nts" },
                                { "nz","nz","nz","nz","nz","nzh" },
                                { "nzh","nzh","nzh","nzh","nzh","nzh" },
                                { "p","p","pl","pl","pl","pl" },
                                { "pl","pl","pl","pr","pr","pr" },
                                { "pr","pr","pr","pr","q","q" },
                                };
 
extern char *final5[6][6] =     {
                                { "ql","ql","qr","qr","r","r" },
                                { "r","r","r","sh","sh","sh" },
                                { "sh","sh","sh","sh","t","t" },
                                { "t","t","ts","ts","ts","ts" },
                                { "ts","ts","ts","tl","tl","tl" },
                                { "tl","tl","tl","tl","tl","tl" },
                                };
 
extern char *final6[6][6] =     {
                                { "v","v","v","v","v","vl" },
                                { "vl","vl","vl","vr","vr","vr" },
                                { "vr","vr","z","z","z","z" },
                                { "z","z","z","z","z","zh" },
                                { "zh","zh","zh","zh","zh","zh" },
                                { "'","'","'","'","'","'" },
                                };
 
/* end of final consonant initialization */
@EOF

chmod 644 zcon2.c

echo x - zhodani.c
cat >zhodani.c <<'@EOF'
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <time.h>
#include <string.h>
#include "zmain.c"
#include "zcon1.c"
#include "zvow.c"
#include "zcon2.c"
 
#define DIE     6
#define CONS    'C'
#define VOW     'V'
 
char *string[6], *wordstring;
char rc, *ptr;
int syllen;
int Random();
char *GetICons();
char *GetFCons();
char *GetVow();
 
main(argc,argv)
int argc;
char *argv[];
{
        int red, white, i, j, count, maxsyl;
        static int syllables;
 
        if(argc >= 2)   {
                srand(time(0L));
                for(count=0;count<atoi(argv[1]);count++)        {
                        syllables = (int) Random(DIE);
                        if(argv[2] != NULL)
                                maxsyl = atoi(argv[2]);
                        if(maxsyl > 0 && maxsyl <= 6)
                                syllables = maxsyl;
                        for (i=0; i<syllables; i++)     {
                                red = Random(DIE) - 1;
                                white = Random(DIE) - 1;
                                if(i != 0)
                                        rc = *(string[i-1]+strlen(string[i-1])-1);
                                if(i==0 || rc == CONS) {
                                        string[i] = basic[red][white];
                                        }
                                else    {
                                        string[i] = alt[red][white];
                                        }
                        } /* End of Loop */
                        string[i] = '\0';
                        wordstring = malloc((syllables * 9)+1);
                        *wordstring = '\0';
                        for(i=0;i<syllables;i++)        {
                                syllen = strlen(string[i]);
                                for(j=0;j<syllen;j++)   {
                                        rc = *(string[i]+j);
                                        if(j==0 && rc == CONS)  {
                                                red = Random(DIE);
                                                ptr = GetICons(red);
                                                strcat(wordstring,ptr);
                                        }
                                        else if(j != 0 && rc == CONS)   {
                                                red = Random(DIE);
                                                ptr = GetFCons(red);
                                                strcat(wordstring,ptr);
                                        }
                                        if(rc == VOW)   {
                                                red = Random(DIE);
                                                ptr = GetVow(red);
                                                strcat(wordstring,ptr);
                                        }
                                }
                        }
                        printf("%s\n",wordstring);
                        *wordstring = '\0';
                }
        }
        else    {
                printf("Usage: zhodani number-of-names [maximum syllables]\n");
                }
} /* End of Main */
 
int Random(max)
int max;
{
        int die;
 
        die = ((int)(rand()%max)+1);
        return(die);
} /* End of Random */
 
char *GetICons(num)
int num;
{
        int r, w;
        char *grab;
 
        r = Random(DIE) - 1;
        w = Random(DIE) - 1;
        switch(num)     {
                case 1: grab = init1[r][w];
                        break;
                case 2: grab = init2[r][w];
                        break;
                case 3: grab = init3[r][w];
                        break;
                case 4: grab = init4[r][w];
                        break;
                case 5: grab = init5[r][w];
                        break;
                case 6: grab = init6[r][w];
                        break;
        }
        return(grab);
} /* End of GetICons */
 
char *GetFCons(num)
int num;
{
        int r, w;
        char *grab;
 
        r = Random(DIE) - 1;
        w = Random(DIE) - 1;
        switch(num)     {
                case 1: grab = final1[r][w];
                        break;
                case 2: grab = final2[r][w];
                        break;
                case 3: grab = final3[r][w];
                        break;
                case 4: grab = final4[r][w];
                        break;
                case 5: grab = final5[r][w];
                        break;
                case 6: grab = final6[r][w];
                        break;
        }
        return(grab);
} /* End of GetFCons */
 
char *GetVow(num)
int num;
{
        int r, w;
        char *grab;
 
        r = Random(DIE) - 1;
        w = Random(DIE) - 1;
        switch(num)     {
                case 1: grab = vow1[r][w];
                        break;
                case 2: grab = vow2[r][w];
                        break;
                case 3: grab = vow3[r][w];
                        break;
                case 4: grab = vow4[r][w];
                        break;
                case 5: grab = vow5[r][w];
                        break;
                case 6: grab = vow6[r][w];
                        break;
        }
        return(grab);
} /* End of GetVow */
@EOF

chmod 644 zhodani.c

echo x - zhodani.doc
cat >zhodani.doc <<'@EOF'
^L               The Zhodani word generator was created to speed
                up creating words and names in the Vargr lang-
                uage using the tables found in Alien Module #4
                for the Traveller Role Playing Game. This code
                is copyright by me, David Courney Boddie on 
                May of 1991, and I give express concent to any
                one who wishes to copy and/or change the code 
                at will, but if you wish to sell the code, I
                would request that you contact me first. This is
                my first batch of C code that actually works
                that does more than prints "Hello World", and
                I am pretty proud of it. This code is public
                domain, but if you distribute it, keep all the
                parts together.

                Compiling this program is simple...There is no
                makefile, and the only file that you need to 
                compile is ZHODANI.C, which will call all the 
                remaining C files. An example command to com-
                pile for a Unix machine would be:

                        cc -o zhodani zhodani.c

                For Turbo C, you can just type the following:

                        tcc zhodani.c
                
                which will create an executible with the same
                name as the C program. You can also use the IDE
                to generate an executible file. Any errors generated
                by the code should be sent back to dboddie@uafhp.uark.edu.
                
^L               Once you have generated an executible, you can execute
                the program with the following parameters (square brack-
                ets [] represent optional parameters):

                        zhodani number-of-words [maximum syllables]

                The number of names (whether 1 or a million) must be
                specified. I haven't updated the code yet to take any
                number of arguements, so I had to stick this restriction
                on it. Since this word/name generator can generate up to
                6 syllables, and each syllable can have up to 10 char-
                acters each...so that can be a lot. So I have entered a
                parameter that allows you to set the maximum number of
                syllables. Neither of these numbers can be 0 or negative.
                
                Well, there you have it...If you have any questions about
                the code or have patches, please submit them to me. I    
                would like to see what you can do with this if you want.
                I believe this code is somewhat bug free, but I have 
                heard that the executibles may crash some PCs. This 
                program is simple, and you shouldn't have any problems  
                with it....but you still might...

                Standard Disclaimer: Since this is my first written 
                piece of code, I will disclaim that I will not be res-
                ponsible for any harmful effects of this code. If you
                are a programmer of C, or can understand C somewhat,
                you should inspect this code before installing it on
                your machine. For those who aren't adept at C, all I
                can give you is my word that this code is harmless.

========================Greetings from the Flux==========================      
: Dave Boddie                                          ___________      :       
: Computer Operator I / Lab Consultant                 |+         |_    :       
: University of Arkansas, Fayetteville                 | NorthWest /    :       
: Bitnet: DBODDIE@UAFSYSB                              | Arkansas |     :       
: Internet: dboddie@uafhp.uark.edu                     |_ U of A /      :       
:                                                        |______|       :       
:    "Strive for exellence, struggle for power, grieve for losing."     :
=========================================================================       
@EOF

chmod 644 zhodani.doc

echo x - zmain.c
cat >zmain.c <<'@EOF'
/* The file ZMAIN.C contains the basic and alternate tables for the */
/* random word generation program. These provide vowel (V) and cons */
/* onant (C) values for the syllable string.                        */
 
extern char *basic[6][6] =      {
                                { "V","V","V","V","CV","CV"             },
                                { "VC","VC","VC","VC","VC","VC"         },
                                { "VC","VC","VC","CVC","CVC","CVC"      },
                                { "CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC"   },
                                { "CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC"   },
                                { "CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC"   }
                                };
 
extern char *alt[6][6] =        {
                                { "V","V","V","V","V","V"               },
                                { "CV","CV","CV","CV","CV","CV"         },
                                { "VC","VC","VC","VC","VC","VC"         },
                                { "CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC"   },
                                { "CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC"   },
                                { "CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC","CVC"   },
                                };
 
/* End of the Basic Tables */
@EOF

chmod 644 zmain.c

echo x - zvow.c
cat >zvow.c <<'@EOF'
/* this file contains all the vowel tables required with the random word */
/* generator.                                                            */
 
extern char *vow1[6][6] =       {
                                { "a","a","a","a","a","a" },
                                { "a","a","a","a","a","a" },
                                { "a","a","a","a","a","a" },
                                { "a","a","a","a","a","a" },
                                { "a","a","a","a","a","a" },
                                { "a","a","a","a","a","a" },
                                };
 
extern char *vow2[6][6] =       {
                                { "a","a","a","a","a","a" },
                                { "a","a","a","a","a","a" },
                                { "e","e","e","e","e","e" },
                                { "e","e","e","e","e","e" },
                                { "e","e","e","e","e","e" },
                                { "e","e","e","e","e","e" },
                                };
 
extern char *vow3[6][6] =       {
                                { "e","e","e","e","e","e" },
                                { "e","e","e","e","e","e" },
                                { "e","e","e","e","e","e" },
                                { "e","e","e","e","e","e" },
                                { "e","e","e","e","e","e" },
                                { "e","e","e","i","i","i" },
                                };
 
extern char *vow4[6][6] =       {
                                { "i","i","i","i","i","i" },
                                { "i","i","i","i","i","i" },
                                { "i","i","i","i","i","i" },
                                { "i","i","i","i","i","i" },
                                { "i","i","i","i","i","i" },
                                { "i","i","ia","ia","ia","ia" },
                                };
 
extern char *vow5[6][6] =       {
                                { "ia","ia","ia","ia","ia","ia" },
                                { "ia","ia","ia","ia","ia","ia" },
                                { "ia","ia","ia","ia","ia","ia" },
                                { "ia","ia","ia","ia","ia","ia" },
                                { "ie","ie","ie","ie","ie","ie" },
                                { "ie","ie","ie","ie","ie","ie" },
                                };
 
extern char *vow6[6][6] =       {
                                { "ie","ie","ie","ie","ie","ie" },
                                { "ie","ie","ie","ie","ie","ie" },
                                { "ie","ie","ie","ie","o","o" },
                                { "o","o","o","o","o","o" },
                                { "o","o","o","o","o","o" },
                                { "r","r","r","r","r","r" },
                                };
 
/* end of vowel initialization */
@EOF

chmod 644 zvow.c

exit 0

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2428
From: ware@arc
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 07:48:00 GMT

Reply to:  Those Pesky Ships
==============================================================
When is the last time a contractor delivered a ship to the navy
or a building to the county WITHOUT(!) cost overruns?! It's my
contention that your spreadsheet is probably more accurate than
you think it is. When you look in the books and see that a ship
of a given class cost X, X is probably an average. Every ship
is unique. As ships of even the same class age, they are refit,
equipment is added or replaced, etc... Our wet navy puts a great
of effort into standardizing equipment but things happen beyond 
their control(eg sub assembly maker goes bankrupt, Murphy's Law,
etc). Prehaps after trials of the first few ships of a class, 
some improvement is made, and changed in follow on orders.
Reality: there are over twenty Spruance class destroyers
in the US Navy. There at least 4 different variant sub-classes
which vary from the general design in some minor way. 
They probably didn't square on the Navy's spreadsheets either.
(Rumor has it that the last ship in that class was supposed to
be a can of peaches but the order number had digits transposed...)
There are scads of factors to consider in building a ship(wet).
Starship construction is an infinitly more challenging project. 
- - -James R. Ware

================================================================
(601)359-6888                     ware@mc1.wes.army.mil
================================================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2429
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 18:08:00 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: a test of sorts

I'm finally getting my mailer to work, and this is another in a series 
of tests, hopefully the only one you'll see. Sorry for the bandwidth.

metlay

PS. Just got an article accepted for MTJ #3, according to a letter by Rob
Caswell of DGP I just got in the mail.(He actually said he "would like to
make room for it," which might mean that it gets pulled at the last minute,
but I can hope.) He's also asked me for another article by the end of summer,
which I don't think I'm going to make deadline on, UNLESS someone who enjoys
creating rules tables and testing them from scratch would be interested in
co-authoring with me...?

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2430
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1991 15:00:18 EDT
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: Problems: VARGR and ZHODANI word generators

Hello out there,

first thanks to Dave Boddie <dboddie@uafhp.uark.edu> for his Vargr and
Zhodani word generators. I got the sources yesterday and they run (after 
some slight problems 8-).

I made some changes to get them started. Both sources are similar. The 
problems and changes I've made are the same in both sources:
          

Problem 1:

> char *string[6], *wordstring; 

In this line the declaration should be

char *string[7], *wordstring;

because you nead string[6] to create a pointer on a char variable which 
contains the NULL delimiter if using 6 syllables.


Problem 2:
You had to complete the following line:

> string[i] = '\0';

by:

string[i] = malloc(sizeof(char));
*string[i] = '\0';

That's the only component of string[i] which needs memory seperatly. In the
loop above this line, the pointers of the variable "string" are set to the
entries of the tables "alt" and "basic". So no allocation of memory is needed.


Problem 3:

I had some trouble with the random generator used. I have compiled the program
with Borland TurboC Version 2.0. The random generator included there 
generates random numbers ranged 0..max-1 if you call random(max).
The random generator in the sources generates numbers ranged 1..max.
Make sure your random generator works in the correct range. The tables
of vowels and consonants need ranges of 0..5. The functions GetICons etc.
need ranges of 1..6. The variable "syllables" should also assume values
from 1 to 6.


The results produced by the original were unusable and can't be spelled.

If someone has better ideas for correcting the source, please send me
a notice.

Juergen


P.S.: By the way, can somebody tell me if MTJ#2 is out in USA. If so I had
      to contact my local dealer.

Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik der Universitaet Bonn
Bonn, Germany
Kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2431
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 09:59:22 EDT
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: FTP server down


As some of you may have noticed the ftp server is down currently.
I am having some difficulties with the hardware involved. Barring
further difficulties, it should be running again by Thursday (12th).

With regards to the recent talk about name generators, I have one
available on the FTP server under the /donations directory. It is
in the middle of being converted to allow it to read allegience
codes from sector maps, and generate names for planets, but right
now it will generate words of random or fixed syllable(sp?) length.
It reads its word data from files, and there is a file for each
of the major races (vargr, Aslan, Droyne, KKree, etc.) Sorry no
Hiver language - obviously.

				-Dan

Dan Corrin, Network Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
TML/CZ FTP site coordinator:     dan@engrg.uwo.ca.        (519) 661-3834

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2432
Subject: Re: Vargr and Zhodani word generator souce code
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 91 12:46:00 CDT
From: Dave Boddie <dboddie@uafhp.uark.edu>

+>by Juergen Kirsch:

+>Hello out there,
+>first thanks to Dave Boddie <dboddie@uafhp.uark.edu> for his Vargr and
+>Zhodani word generators. I got the sources yesterday and they run (after 
+>some slight problems 8-).

I am not a very good programmer, particularly because I have been teaching
myself C, so I will try to answer this reply taking into consideration your
criticizms. I really need the criticizm, so fire away... This is a learning
experience for me... :)

+>I made some changes to get them started. Both sources are similar. The 
+>problems and changes I've made are the same in both sources:
          
+>Problem 1:

+>> char *string[6], *wordstring; 

+>In this line the declaration should be

+>char *string[7], *wordstring;

+>because you nead string[6] to create a pointer on a char variable which 
+>contains the NULL delimiter if using 6 syllables.

I thought I had already compensated for that. Since all arrays in C begin at 0,
if you were to have 6 syllables, that would contain the elements 0-5, with the 
6th element being the terminating char '\0'. Of course with the loop, if you 
ended up with less than 6, the \0 would be placed wherever the end of the number
of syllables would lie.


+>Problem 2:
+>You had to complete the following line:

+>> string[i] = '\0';

+>by:
+>string[i] = malloc(sizeof(char));
+>*string[i] = '\0';

+>That's the only component of string[i] which needs memory seperatly. In the
+>loop above this line, the pointers of the variable "string" are set to the
+>entries of the tables "alt" and "basic". So no allocation of memory is needed.

Why would you have to do this? I figured since I defined string[6], there would
be space allocated for it. I do admit I didn't do this, but I saw no reason to
allocate extra memory for a string terminator.


+>Problem 3:

+>I had some trouble with the random generator used. I have compiled the program
+>with Borland TurboC Version 2.0. The random generator included there 
+>generates random numbers ranged 0..max-1 if you call random(max).
+>The random generator in the sources generates numbers ranged 1..max.
+>Make sure your random generator works in the correct range. The tables
+>of vowels and consonants need ranges of 0..5. The functions GetICons etc.
+>need ranges of 1..6. The variable "syllables" should also assume values
+>from 1 to 6.

I am also using TurboC v2.0 also. In the beginning, I thought about generating
a 0-max-1 or 0-5 range, but thanks to personal preferences, I decided to go 
with the 1-6 range and change it later. In the GetICons and other functions, 
I reduced the random number generated by one whenever I went to reference
anything from the array tables. THat gave me a 0-5 range (I know it's not 
truly random, but what the heck...I reduced all the values of my random
generated variablse by 1 whenever accessing an array. I think it was mostly
preference than anything...I tested it here, and it came out fine.


+>The results produced by the original were unusable and can't be spelled.

Hmmmmm. This seemed to work for me...it follows the rules laid down in the 
Alien Modules for creating words. If you will look in the Vargr alien module,
you will notice some of those words do gain an excess of 15+ letters, and 
are sometimes hard to pronounce. I believe in my next indever (unless some
one wants to help me -- hint, hint) I will add a pronounciation to the word
generator.

+>If someone has better ideas for correcting the source, please send me
+>a notice.

Yes, please do...this is pretty fun to get critiqued....

+>Juergen
+>Institut fuer Informatik der Universitaet Bonn
+>Bonn, Germany
+>Kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

Dave Boddie
- - --
========================Greetings from the Flux==========================      
:                       Using Elm revision 64.9                         :
: Dave Boddie                                          ___________      :       
: Computer Operator I / Lab Consultant                 |+         |_    :       
: University of Arkansas, Fayetteville                 | NorthWest /    :       
: Bitnet: DBODDIE@UAFSYSB                              | Arkansas |     :       
: Internet: dboddie@uafhp.uark.edu                     |_ U of A /      :       
:                                                        |______|       :       
:    "Strive for exellence, struggle for power, grieve for losing."     :
=========================================================================       

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2433
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 91 15:50:54 -0400
From: gt4534b@prism.gatech.edu (JARRIO,MARTIN MICHAEL)
Subject: pop density

    I was looking at my copy of the Megatraveller Journal the other day with a
particular emphasis on the Enaaka Worldguide article. I was looking to
incorporate it into my own (fledgeling) campaign, set in an "alternate" uni-
verse. Boy, that was a good article. The "Fungus Planet" has soooo many
possibilites. Anyway, I turned a cold, analytical eye to the world data, and I
found some problems. Most are minor (for example, the mass/gravity data just
doesn't jive with the given size/density data, unless my abacus is screwed up).
These inconsistencies are easily resolved, but I found one GLARING problem:

    Aton: capital city of Enaaka
          --population: 9.75 million
          --location  : inside a dome some THREE KILOMETERS ACROSS

    The population densitty of this city is OVER ONE PERSON PER SQUARE METER!
This seems a trifle high to me. Particularly for a planet with a tech level of
six. Even if you assume extensive underground tunneling, I don't think it is
feasible. Think of all the things a big city needs: Heavy industries and manu-
facturing, power generation, transportation, distribution and retail of food 
and consumer goods, waste management, atmosphere purification (for a city in
a dome, city administration, planetary government (for a capitol), emergency
services, decontamination services, law enforcement, and probably gobs of
other things I can't think of.
    Anyway, this is no  great problem in itself. I am just going to assume 
the city of Aton to be inside a number of such domes. The problem, though,
is HOW MANY? I.E. just how big does a city of about 10 million have to be?
I think this question has a lot of applicability in other situations, too.
That is, given a particular environment (vacuum world, desert world, Earth-
like world, or maybe some type of hostile atmosphere), what is the maximum
supportable population density of a city? I would expect that as the tech
level increased, so would pop density. But how much so? 
    As another example, my "home-brew" campaign wound up with a kinda freak-
ish (randomly generated) world: Selky (diameter: 2000 miles -- about the size
of Earth's moon, I believe -- airless,waterless -- population over 90 BILLION!
Tech level: 12. I was tempted to throw this out as being pathetically unreason-
able, but instead I upped the tech level arbitrarily to 15 (high stellar tech-
nology can really pack those bodies in there, don't you know) and made a rather
interesting and dangerous planet (can you say "secretly cannibalistic under-
classes"? I knew you could.)
    Well, to summarize in one question:
Would anyone care to enlighten me about their views of technology and pop-
ulation density? Does anyone care? Have I been wasting my time discussing
this? Have you been wasting your time reading this? 

    (Okay, so I can't count)
    Marty Jarrio, physicist at large
    gt4534b@prism.gatech.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2434
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1991 10:12 EDT
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Population Densities

>Would anyone care to enlighten me about their views of technology and pop-
>ulation density? Does anyone care? Have I been wasting my time discussing
>this? Have you been wasting your time reading this?

One question ?:-)

In the Traveller System, random generateds can get wierd on you.  But with a
creative GM it isn't a problem.  Lets take for example your world:

_200A__-C

Obviouslly native life is not possible unless we get into some wierd energy
beings (which is of course possible).  Why was this system settled?  It was
probably the only planet in the habitable zone.  What would drawn 90 billion
people to this rock in space?  It sure isn't the Hilton Head Is. of space.
This is probably a system that has a good quantity of metals used is ship
construction and or a "hub" planet for trade.  Not the best place to have it,
but its location makes it suitable.

TL 9 to TL 10 is probably high enough TL to build orbitable habitats.  So you
could have domed cities on the surface and orbiting cities and you could easily
spread the 90 Billion out.  Also, the Basic Traveller rules can be interepreted
to mean the population of the system, not just the mail world!

Hope this helps
Rob


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2435
Subject: DGP upcoming products
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 13:06:29 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>

I had the occasion to call DGP today and I asked what's in the pipeline
for new MegaTraveller products.  MegaTraveller Journal # 2 should start
appearing on the newsstands a little after July 1st.  Aliens Volume II -
Solomani/Aslan, is being collated and composed for release next,
although it is not clear when that will be.  I forgot to ask about
non-MT products like AI.

Apparently there is little hope for those of us who have been putting
off the purchase of MTJ#1.  It's not only out of print, there are no
stockpiles of it around anywhere! The few extra copies DGP had were
begged away by the Origins convention.

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2436
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 17:54:00 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Arcologies, or, packing them in

There's a lovely article on the high-pop world of Azun in JTAS17 (?); it
serves as an admirable introduction to the theory of the arcology, a city
that accomplishes maximum pop. density, minimum environmental impact, and
maximized human comfort all in one swoop. Suffice it to say that based
on the theories of Paolo Soleri, who developed the idea of the arcology in
the 1960s, 10 million people in a three-klick square is not only possible 
but in fact quite easy.

I use arcological theory (straight from Soleri, not the watered-down stuff
the popular media tends to handle) in the games rules sets that I write;
if your local library has a copy of "Arcology: The city in the Image of Man"
by Soleri, I heartily recommend reading it, assuming they'll let you take it
out. (It's a very unusually-designed book, and most public libraries consider
it a work of art as well as a reference and hence limit its circulation).
A very, VERY poor substitute is Niven and Pournelle's "Oath of Fealty," 
which gleefully manages to drag every bit of Soleri's vision through the
dung heap. Feh!

I should also point out that high technology makes arcological building 
easier, but it is by no means vital: any TL above 4 could build arcologies,
with the maximum population density growing as the tech level did. The
arcology is a philosophy of architecture, not a specific machine; arcologies
can have only a few hundred people, or millions. 

I can go into more details if people want me to, but not immediately; I'm
leaving tomorrow for a research trip, and will have only limited net access
from now until June 30th or July 1st.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2437
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 91 11:27:25 EDT
From: bermuda!givler@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.COM (Greg Givler)
Subject: Fifth Frontier War

Does anyone have a copy or know of a copy of Fifth Frontier War that they
would be willing to sell.

Thanks

Greg

- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Givler                        | Q-Link: GregGivler
Analyst - Systems Evaluation Group | CompuServe: Greg Givler 76702,647
Commodore Product Assurance        | GEnie: G.Givler
215-431-9100                       | The NET: givler@cbmvax.commodore.com
- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "By the way, don't eat the figs." - Livia to Tiberius after the death of
                        Augustus - I, Claudius PBS
===============================================================================

[Greg - should this fail, you can ask if the merchant of out-of-print
games has one for sale: The Weekend Warrior, 8116 Van Noord Ave., North
Hollywood, CA 91605, (818)988-1441 - James]

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2438
From: rem@oz.plymouth.edu (Bob Mahoney)
Subject: 2300 AD...
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 91 15:52:13 EDT

Our current referee, and one of our players, are expecting a child in the near 
future.  (No, it didn't happen at a playing session...)

This means it will soon be my turn in the hot seat.  In thinking what I might
want to do differently next time, I picked up 2300.  It looks interesting enough
to consider.  It is a much "smaller" game than MT, in that it has a smaller
focus.  I'm sure that some of you have played both- what did you think of 2300?

I am particularly interested in how the players reacted to a more familiar 
background setting.  Did it help them to get a better feel for the universe?
- - -- 
                                ..
- - -------------------------------m--m------------------------------------------
Bob Mahoney    Plymouth State College   Computer Services, Plymouth, NH 03264
rem@oz.plymouth.edu      Net Manager/Postmaster       bobmah@psc.plymouth.edu 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2439
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 91 18:50:47 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: catching up


I've been gone for a bit.  Some accumulated stuff...

	The vehicles FTP site melted in a recent ocf disk crash.  I'm asking
Rob Dean to re-send his files, but it may be out for a while.  Sorry...

	Challenge 53 will contain the first installment of Terry McInnes'
Wet Navy rules supplement.  I have not seen the actual rules, but according
to Michelle Sturgeon, they're finalized and GDW is happy with them.  My
Waterfaring Vehicles stuff is ... in limbo.  I'm tempted to send it to DGP
and cut challenge off 8-) but that would be unkind.  Thanks to people, esp.
Rob Dean, who helped with them.

	Metlay: if you're still looking for someone to help with that article
you mentioned a week ago, send me mail.

	-george william herbert
	gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2440
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 91 11:29:00 MET
From: sm@ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.dk

Confirm Delivery: Yes
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 91 11:29:15 MET
From: Sven.Munther@Copenhagen.NCR.DK (Sven Munther)
Subject: 2300 AD is a great game


Bob Mahoney writes :

> This means it will soon be my turn in the hot seat.  In thinking what I might
> want to do differently next time, I picked up 2300.  It looks interesting
> enough
> to consider.  It is a much "smaller" game than MT, in that it has a smaller
> focus.  I'm sure that some of you have played both- what did you think of
> 2300?

Yes, have played 2300 AD for quite some time now, and I am very
addicted to it now. In fact, I have not refereed Traveller/MegaTraveller
the last 4 years because I have prefered 2300. I like the combat system,
I like the universe, I like the aliens, I like the task system (almost
identical to MegaTraveller's). All in all : it is a great game - the only
bad thing is the current lack of support from GDW. When will 2300AD get
their own DGP company to support them ? 

I am not sure what you mean by a smaller game and smaller focus, but
I have to admit that the background material details a tiny universe
compared to MT. The 2300 AD rules on the other hand do everything
they are supposed to do, even though they only use a fragment of the
number of pages the MT rules use.

> I am particularly interested in how the players reacted to a more familiar 
> background setting.  Did it help them to get a better feel for the universe?

Yes I think so. Also the lack of wild hi-tech equipment gives a better
feel (even though it might be unrealistic). 

We could go into rules discussions and supplement/adventure recommendations,
but that may be out of focus for a Traveller mailing list ?


Sven


- - --------------------------------------------------------------------
      "                            Sven.Munther@Copenhagen.NCR.dk
Sven Munther                       Sven.Munther@Copenhagen.NCR.com
                                   ...!mcsun!dkuug!ncrsecp!sm



------------------------------

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Jun 26 21:00:11 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #202: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2441  21-Jun-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN random thoughts on techno,arco, and other olo
2442  22-Jun-91 Mark F. Cook      Of Miniguns and machinepistols... << In note 
2443  22-Jun-91 Mark F. Cook      Richard! Where's PBEM Turn 10.10? << Speaking
2444  24-Jun-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: Arcologies and Predator << I vaguely reca
2445  24-Jun-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Horosho Vehicles << Speaking of Horosho (the 
2446  24-Jun-91 "Robert S. Dean"  2300AD << Sven Munther writes: > Date: Thu, 2
2447  24-Jun-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2442) Of Miniguns and machinepistols... 
2448  24-Jun-91 Brian Larkin      MegaTraveller << I just bought the MegaTravel
2449  24-Jun-91 Brian Larkin      Starship Designs << I tried to download the s
2450  25-Jun-91 kirsch@rhea.infor Need information about Glisten << Hello Trave
2451  25-Jun-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN TTwo quick quomments << First of all, I'd lik
2452  25-Jun-91 teets@frith.egr.m Striker << Semi-legendary Striker rules??? Ar
2453  25-Jun-91 richard@oresoft.C Archaic Targeting Systems << Imperial Intelli
2454  25-Jun-91 tek@PRAM.CS.UCLA.  << What is the address for the MegaTraveller
2455  25-Jun-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Another design... << In my face to face Trave
2456  22-Jun-91 09nilles%cuavax.d re: Random thoughts on techni, arco and other
2457  25-Jun-91 James T Perkins   MT Journal Address, Cost, Back Issues << tek@
2458  25-Jun-91 mcknight@f104.n17 MSDOS Compress/Decompress << From: chuck.mckn
2459  26-Jun-91 MacGyver          MegaTraveller Journal << MegaTraveller Journa
2460  26-Jun-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Deckplans << > run across in numerous campaig
2461  26-Jun-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Speaking about Seeker. << ...have anyone seen

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2441
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 91 01:19:57 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: random thoughts on techno,arco, and other ologies


It's after midnight, and I'm going to be on shift until 5 am or so waiting
to put beam on target here at the accelerator facility at Notre Dame U.
(a pustulent, oozing chancre on the upper lip of the United States), so I
thought I'd catch up on some requests for Traveller related materials that
I've gotten and just generally ramble, as I haven't done for a while....

ON ARCOLOGIES: Paolo Soleri was a really weird old coot (and may still be,
I don't know if he's kicked it yet), and his main writing was done in the 
1960s; the tone and tempo of his works reflect this, tho they still apply
quite well even today. Recall that the environment movement was still in its
infancy and not yet in vogue in the 60s, largely a hippie-and-egghead concern.
It's worthwhile to see how his ideas translate into Traveller terms....

Cars were big and burned lots and LOTs of leaded gasoline, and it really did
look as if the world was going to be totally paved in asphalt. Soleri addressed
this concern with vigor and bile; he was convinced that the automobile was the
Antichrist made flesh, the modern Mammon that all humans worshipped to the 
detriment of the planet. Which was and is true, to an extent, but what the hey.

In Trav terms this gives rise to varying degrees of arcological development
based on tech level and type of government and law level. Arcologies are not
megalopoli; they do not grow in random directions like cancers. In fact they 
do not grow at all; they spore. When an arcology grows crowded, a new arcology
is built elsewhere. This type of growth and development depends heavily on the
attitudes of the population; worlds with high or extreme Laws and the types
of governments that tend to regiment individual movement stringently will have
an easier time building arcologies. Why is this true, and what does it have
to do with the Satan That Runs on Four Wheels? Simple! Private ownership of 
fast long-range transportation is a basic personal freedom we take for granted
here in the USA, and the single greatest blockage to arcodevelopment: if people
move around all the time and constantly go to new places to get more elbow
room, the arcology cannot succeed. Arcologies depend on a populace that has
no private transport and no need or desire to move around a lot, except perhaps
for vacations. A world with arcologies must by definition make ownership of
cars or air/rafts a difficult, expensive and possibly illegal matter. Public
transport must fill the gap, so efficiently that the average citizen does not
miss having no private go-box. The result is a world of tiny, compact urban
areas with wilderness in between, a world that can "breathe" according to 
Soleri's vision. 

The average arcology holds hundreds to tens of thousands of people; larger 
designs of over a million are possible but less practical. It is a single
building that combines comfort and beauty with practicality and efficiency;
while the "basic" designs tend to be pretty but not startling in their
applications and settings, the more "advanced" designs are nothing short of
incredible. I've used designs straight from Soleri's book on parties of 
Trav characters, and gotten looks of, "You've gone bananas, right?"

Arcologies can go anywhere there is a need. Fishing and marine development?
Float one on the continental shelf. Shipping and transport? Build one over a
river delta. And- one of my favorites- imagine incorporating hydropower, 
irrigation control, population support and a remarkable esthetic sense by
damming a huge river to form a reservoir, and making the structure of the 
dam itself an arcology of over a half million people! Soleri also predicted
the rotating drum design for the L-5 colony years before it went on the 
drawing board, and in his more fanciful moments created arcological equivalents
of igloos, pueblos, kibbutzim, and designs that could only be called, well,
"abstract." Neat stuff, and a lot more complicated in conception and use
than just a huge apartment building.

ON TECHNOLOGY: I watched a movie on TV last night, something I rarely do these
days. It was a Schwarzenegger shootemup flick I'd missed in the theaters the
first time around, called "Predator." I'm sure you're familiar with the plot,
such as it is: a group of mercenaries in central America get picked off one
by one by a critter that is nearly invisible, moves like lightning, and kills
with a swipe of razor-sharp claws or a blast of energy. (Until Arnie takes
it on with a handmade bow and arrow and some pungi sticks and wins, of course)
And, Trav-head that I am, I got to thinking:

1. The alien's armor was remarkable in its similarity to combat armor: good
protection, chameleon capabilities (altho "our" armor only works in the IR
range, not the visible), and tactical heatscans. The weapons platform was
described as something that could shoot big or small holes in things and 
perfectly cauterize wounds: basically a plasma weapon. It was laser-aimed
and guided from a shoulder mount by head and eye movement; not that much 
fancier than what the Emperor's troops carry. Conclusion? It's a good thing
the guy chose Earth to hunt on; in a TL13 environment, the local game wardens
would've shot him to pieces in no time.

2. One weapon which I'd heard about but never seen in action before the film
was the 30mm MiniGun, a gatling weapon firing huge shells at a high rate
of fire and capable of rendering just about anything into taco filling, up
to and including armored vehicles. The drum-loading grenade rifles were
also quite interesting, but not as much so since they have an equivalent in 
the Traveller rules. What I want to know is, why no MiniGuns in Traveller? 
They're heavy and noisy, but really efficient compared to lasers and early
high-energy weapons. Hmm, time for another article in the MTJ....

Well, that's enough for now; the mini-machine-pistols from Total Recall aren't
in the rules either. I guesss we need an Arnie supplement for the rules. |->

fade out mumbling,
metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2442
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Of Miniguns and machinepistols...
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 91 21:39:17 PDT

In note 2441, Metlay writes:

> ON ARCOLOGIES: Paolo Soleri was a really weird old coot (and may still be,
> I don't know if he's kicked it yet)

I think he's still alive.  If so, he'll be 72 years old next month.

> ON TECHNOLOGY: I watched a movie on TV last night, something I rarely do these
> days. It was a Schwarzenegger shootemup flick I'd missed in the theaters the
> first time around, called "Predator." ...
> 
> 2. One weapon which I'd heard about but never seen in action before the film
> was the 30mm MiniGun, a gatling weapon firing huge shells at a high rate
> of fire and capable of rendering just about anything into taco filling, up
> to and including armored vehicles. The drum-loading grenade rifles were
> also quite interesting, but not as much so since they have an equivalent in 
> the Traveller rules. What I want to know is, why no MiniGuns in Traveller? 
> They're heavy and noisy, but really efficient compared to lasers and early
> high-energy weapons. Hmm, time for another article in the MTJ....

Hmmm, time to put on my "Ye Olde Weaponsmith" hat.  The weapon carried by
Blane (Jesse Fortuna) in "Predator" was a modified General Electric M-134
minigun, and is 5.56mm (.223 caliber), not 30mm.  As such, it does much
less damage (using the same round as an M-16).  While it can make chopped
chard out of plants and people, it is significantly ineffective against
armored vehicles (whereas a 30mm gatling gun, like a GAU-8A Avenger, is
most certainly not).  With variable fire rates from 2000 to 6000 rpm, the
M-134 doesn't stay loaded very long, once the trigger is pulled.  I read
that Blanes backpack supposedly held 1000 rounds.  Assuming a conservative
ROF, that's 30 seconds worth of ammunition.  But, boy howdy!  Talk about
rock 'n roll!!  Sure beats the hell out of Ginsu Knives (tm). :-)

>From an MT combat standpoint, the M-134 is just a 5.5mm Gatling Gun-8 (pg.
77 - MT Players Manual) but with a much higher ROF.  (The ones in the manual
are unrealistically low anyway.) Even the 30mm Avenger could be treated as 
a VRF Gauss Gun, but with a smaller ammo capacity.  The Pen/Atten and
Damage are about right.  However, I'd jack the Autofire targets *way*
up to, say, 20 or 30.  Sound excessive?  Well, that's an Avenger for you. :-)

> Well, that's enough for now; the mini-machine-pistols from Total Recall aren't
> in the rules either. I guesss we need an Arnie supplement for the rules. |->

Those pistols in "Total Recall" were Calico M950 9mm semi-autos, modified
to full-auto for the movie.  The horizontal rotary clip they mount on top
of the receiver holds 50 rounds.  Needless to say, they got reloaded a
*lot* between takes.  Calico also makes a .22 caliber version that accepts
either 50 or 100 round clips.  None of them are full-auto capable however
(sigh).  Maybe, some day, I can afford that $3600.00 H&K MP-5.  Gotta win
the state lottery! :-)

BTW, Firefight 1.0, the personal combat rules for TDR, easily accomodate
both of these weapons.  Iain Fogg and I had intended to redraft the rules
to correct some of the first round omissions, as well as streamline it
a bit.  I haven't heard from Iain since the beginning of the year, but
I expect he's been as busy as I have.  Maybe we can get something going
again this fall, when the TML revs back into slightly higher gear.

Later,
	- Mark C.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2443
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Richard!  Where's PBEM Turn 10.10?
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 91 21:42:27 PDT

Speaking of the PBEM (Huh?  What's he talking about?), Richard, when are
we going to see turn 10.10, or 11.0, or whatever you're going to call the
next one?  I think a decent suicide deserves a decent obituary, don't you? :-)

Later,
	- Mark C.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2444
Date:     Mon, 24 Jun 91 10:48:12 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re: Arcologies and Predator

I vaguely recall seeing a copy of Soleri's book sometime around 1972.  Does
anyone know offhand if it's still in print?  (I know, check Books in Print...
but it may take me a day or two to get to the library.)

In addition to restrictive societies, it would seem to me that arcologies 
would be the way to go for a planned colonization of a marginally inhabitable
world, say one with an atmopshere too thin to breathe without a compressor.
In a situation like that, there wouldn't be much incentive to gad off on your
own and try to homestead.  I ran through the World Builder's Handbook pro-
cedures for Horosho/Glisten in the Spinward Marches a few weeks ago, in
connection with my face to face game, and came up with a base temperature
and atmospheric pressure combination that meant that over a broad band around
the equator, the seas boiled in daylight...which means rain, Rain, RAIN
elsewhere.  With no native life, this looked like a perfect place for arcs, and
I would have put them in anyway...but the dice came up with populations of the
same order of magnitude as the world population (8) for the primary cities,
which made it a sure thing.  I also figure that the unstable atmospheric 
conditions restrict the use of grav vehicles.

Guns:

As Mark Cook pointed out, the minigun does have a Traveller equivalent.  Also,
since some people have access to Striker, I should point out that Striker's
gun design system allows you to design any size and barrel count autocannon
you might like.

However, for the stout of heart, I picked up a copy of "Guns, Guns, Guns" by
Greg Porter of BTRC this weekend.  There was an article in Challenge #40 by
Mr. Porter on GGG to MT conversions.  This system allows you to design guns,
rockets, missiles, lasers, and high energy weapons using a fairly straight-
forward and easy to follow system (easier than MT vehicles, let's say, but not
quite so easy as Book 2 starship design).  For a conventional weapon, you start
by picking the slug parameters, followed by the powder charge, the casing,
the receiver, the barrel, and the add-ons.  My only problem is that I'm not 
a real gun buff, so I don't know how silly something might be before I start.
Anyway, if you want something with a penetration of 7 so that it will punch 
through cloth armor, it can be done (I did it with a TL9 DS round for what
turns out to be a 9mm heavy machine gun cartridge fired from a bolt action
rifle with cost increased 4 times to get a 50% cut in weight to about 6kg--
think of it as a Boys Antitank Rifle.)  Just for grins, I'll append my first
three design tries, converted for MT (without the extraneous GGG data) below.

One of the things I especially liked about the system is that guns improve with
tech levels.  We're all aware of the recurring problem of cultural paralysis
in MT, where the TL1 and the TL15 manufactured versions of an item are 
identical...

THREE GUN DESIGNS

Gun         Ammo Rds Pen/Attn  Dmg  Auto  Dgr  Sig  Recoil   Difficulty
3mm Needler  -   60    3/3      2    2     -    M     M       Handgun
4.5mm AR     -   40    3/2      3    3     -    M     M       Rifle
9mm Rifle    -    5    5/3      3    -     -    M     M       Rifle
             AP   5    6/3      3    -     -    M     M       Rifle
             DS   5    7/2      3    -     -    M     M       Rifle
20mm AG     HEAT  5     7       4    -     -    M     M       Rifle
           Flech  5    1/2      4    -    1.5   M     M       Rifle
             AP   5     4       3    -     -    M     M       Rifle

Ranges are Distant for the Rifle and AR, Vlong for the Needler, and
Vlong for the assault gun with HEAT or AP, Long with flechettes.

Gun         Length  Weight  Cost  Ammo Wt  Ammo Cost
3mm Needler  .39m    .53kg  2240   .12kg     75/60
4.5mm AR     .64m    3.8kg   730   .246kg    13/40
9mm Rifle    .57m    5.6kg  9890   .878kg     9/5 slugs
                                             18/5 AP
                                             27/5 DS
20mm AG      .28m    3.7kg   450   .24kg     17/5 HEAT
                                              6/5 Flechette
                                              6/5 AP

Notes: The 3mm Needler is a TL10 product, and fires a 3x30mm flechette caseless
round.  It looks like you could probably fire it as a rifle rather than a 
handgun if you used an extendable stock.  Sort of an Uzi or Ingram M-10 
item.

The 4.5mm Assault Rifle is manufactured at TL9 by the League Arsenal (Sea 
League, Overnale/Glisten), and is fairly conventional--cased round, bullpup
configuration. The rate of fire is pushing the limits, and a referee might 
want to think about jamming mishaps if the weapon is used for extended auto-
fire.  It should, however, be able to handle 2 autofire targets without
problems.  (Heavy duty receiver, unusual in an assault rifle design.)

The 9mm Pegasus Hyperion is a bolt action bullpup rifle chambered for the
Pegasus 9mm HMG round (Pegasus Defender HMG forthcoming), used for hunting
the large game found in some of Overnale's coastal regions (36,000kg
amphibious killers, would you believe?).

The 20mm assault gun is basically a light grenade launcher firing a short range
small HEAT round.  I'm figuring on a folding stock on this one...sort of a 
cross between a 10 gauge shotgun and a German HK-69 grenade launcher.  Semi-
automatic.  The flechette round carries 128 2x20mm needles, and I treated it
along the same lines as the game treats shotguns as far as danger space.  Like
a shotgun, anyone in the path might have a problem.  I doubt you would use the
steel slug (AP) round for much of anything, but it's cheap for practice.

According to GGG, most Traveller weapons ought to be able to reach into the
next range category, although that would make firing them at extreme ranges
"Impossible".  (Maybe not a bad model...)

One thing Porter doesn't cover in the Challenge article is cost conversion.  
In GGG he uses something he calls credits, and I have transferred them over
intact.  This means that most of these weapons come out a bit pricey next to
current MT models, so you could fudge those as you like.


Overall, I'd say that it's worth the $8.95 price, especially if you've got
a) the Challenge 40 article, and b) a need for odd guns.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2445
Date:     Mon, 24 Jun 91 11:19:20 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Horosho Vehicles

Speaking of Horosho (the planet of perpetual rain), here are the cargo and
passenger versions of the basic intercity crawler:



Horosho Intercity Passenger Track TL10

     The weather on Horosho makes travel by grav vehicle dangerous and uncer-
tain, and communications between arcologies are maintained by a fleet of 
passenger and cargo crawlers, capable of travelling the distance between two 
typical settlements in less than twelve hours even if the roads are blocked 
by mudslides or other transient terrain phenomena.

  CraftID: Passenger Track, TL10, Cr1,911,400
     Hull: 45/113, Disp=50, Conf=4USL, Armor=4E, Loaded=402.4t,            
           Unloaded=354.8t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=18MW, Dur=18.2days
     Loco: 14/28, Tracks, P/W=44, Road=138kph, Offroad=83kph
     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000km)*3
  Sensors: AllWeatherRadar=VDist(50km), Synthetic Vision, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1
      Def: -
  Control: Comp0*2, DynLink*40
    Accom: Crew=2 (driver, steward), Passengers=47, Seats=ExtOccRoomy*49, 
           Env=basic env, basic ls, ext ls
    Other: Fuel=7.9kl, Cargo=47kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

Horosho Intercity Cargo Track TL10

     The weather on Horosho makes travel by grav vehicle dangerous and uncer-
tain, and communications between arcologies are maintained by a fleet of 
passenger and cargo crawlers, capable of travelling the distance between two 
typical settlements in less than twelve hours even if the roads are blocked 
by mudslides or other transient terrain phenomena.
     The cargo version of the track includes extended duration accommodations 
for the crew, which are occasionally necessary when the heavier vehicles are 
prevented from moving offroad.  In addition, no redundant control computer is 
carried, since a breakdown in the absence of passengers is not considered to 
be a serious problem.  

  CraftID: Cargo Track, TL10, Cr1,856,700
     Hull: 45/113, Disp=50, Conf=4USL, Armor=4E, Loaded=752.0t,            
           Unloaded=355.4t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=18MW, Dur=18.2days
     Loco: 14/28, Tracks, P/W=44, Road=138kph, Offroad=83kph
     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000km)*3
  Sensors: AllWeatherRadar=VDist(50km), Synthetic Vision, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1
      Def: -
  Control: Comp0, DynLink*40
    Accom: Crew=2 (driver, relief driver), Seats=ExtOccRoomy*2, Bunks*2, 
           Env=basic env, basic ls, ext ls
    Other: Fuel=7.9kl, Cargo=396kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2446
Date:     Mon, 24 Jun 91 16:04:20 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  2300AD

Sven Munther writes:
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 91 11:29:00 MET
> From: sm@ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.dk
> Subject: 2300 AD is a great game
> 
> Also the lack of wild hi-tech equipment gives a better
> feel (even though it might be unrealistic). 
>

Why do you think the lack of high tech equipment in 2300 feels unrealistic?
I think it works pretty well, though I'd like to see a little more on some
topics like ship economics, trade, and vehicle construction. (-8
 
> We could go into rules discussions and supplement/adventure recommendations,
> but that may be out of focus for a Traveller mailing list ?

2300AD is within the 'approved area of discussion' for this list, so, by all
means send your comments.  2300AD is one of those games that I've kept buying
the supplements and sourcebooks for, because it looks like it _ought_ to work,
but have not yet found anyone interested in playing.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2447
Date:     Mon, 24 Jun 91 15:58:17 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (2442) Of Miniguns and machinepistols...

In your letter dated Sat, 22 Jun 91 21:39:17 PDT, you wrote:
>
> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 91 21:39:17 PDT
> From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
> Subject: (2442) Of Miniguns and machinepistols...
> 
> From an MT combat standpoint, the M-134 is just a 5.5mm Gatling Gun-8 (pg.
> 77 - MT Players Manual) but with a much higher ROF.  (The ones in the manual
> are unrealistically low anyway.) Even the 30mm Avenger could be treated as 
> a VRF Gauss Gun, but with a smaller ammo capacity.  The Pen/Atten and
> Damage are about right.  However, I'd jack the Autofire targets *way*
> up to, say, 20 or 30.  Sound excessive?  Well, that's an Avenger for you. :-)

I have noticed the problem of low ROF for machine guns, too (and a corres-
ponding problem of _high_ ROF for small autocannons at low TLs), but have 
been sliding by assuming that the multiple barrel MGs and the VRF Gauss
Gun are all in the "1280, 7 targets" category.  I have this horrid suspicion
that that is supposed to mean 1280 rpm, which is still low.  You'd want to
fire in fairly short bursts most of the time anyway.  Of course, you still
can't manpack the thing in Traveller because the weights for those weapons
are nowhere to be found (short of the semi-legendary Striker miniatures rules)
...


> Later,
> 	- Mark C.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2448
Date:         Mon, 24 Jun 91 18:41:07 CDT
From: Brian Larkin <UC559687@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      MegaTraveller



  I just bought the MegaTraveller Boxed set, after playing with the
original game design for about the past 8 years.  At first glance it
seems to have taken care of most of the wholes that I had unfortunately
run across in numerous campaigns.  I also used the archives this past
weekend and came upon the deckplans.  I thoroughly enjoyed these.  Does
anyone out there have any more that I might look at?  I know of the
deckplans that GDW sells and am currently trying to obtain these.
Are there any more out there in the public domain?  If so, please contact
me as soon as possible....

- - -- Toucan
   User Consultant  -- Campus Computing
   University of Missouri - Columbia
   Internet:  UC559687@umcvmb.missouri.edu   BITNET:  UC559687@UMCVMB.BITNET

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2449
Date:         Mon, 24 Jun 91 21:51:01 CDT
From: Brian Larkin <UC559687@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Starship Designs



  I tried to download the starship design files in the traveller/misc
directory. (ST1.z and ST2.z)  I am using a VM/CMS system and alas the
compress program we have only produces garbage for files.  If I had
access to an uncompress program for the IBM-PC I could read them
there instead.  But unfortunatley I don't. Any ideas on how to be able
to decompress these files?  I really would like to have a look at them.

- - -- Toucan

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2450
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1991 12:07:39 EDT
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: Need information about Glisten

Hello Travellers,

I need some informations about Glisten. The informations I have are from
MEGATRAVELLER : Imperial Encyclopaedia and from MTJ#1. My group will arrive
on Glisten next Friday, so I need some more Informations. The Questions
that should be answered are:

- - - How many greater Asteroids are in the Glisten belt?
- - - Is there a special government world ?
- - - How many planets are in the system ?
- - - Which details are known about government, justice and live in the belt?
- - - Where can I buy the best ships ?
- - - Where can I buy the best "Wiener schnitzel" ?

Any detailed Informations are welcome.

Thanks in advance
Juergen

- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn
Germany
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2451
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 07:27:18 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: TTwo quick quomments

First of all, I'd like to point out that Soleri has SEVERAL books on
the subject of arcologies; I have only SEEN "The City in the Image
of Man" and have no idea if it's representative, superior, or inferior
(!!) with respect to the rest of his biblio. And kudos to Rob Dean
for pointing out the single most important reason for arcologies, that
of inclement environments (and perhaps, sadly, the reason why the Earth
will someday be arcological--it'll be unlivable otherwise. But I digress)

Second, reading the comments on the Minigun, the Avenger and the M-134
(OK, so it WON'T kill a tank. Big deal. And you say it's made by General 
Electric? Sheesh, why don't they use THAT in their ad campaigns showing
how many fields they're in? All together now: "GE...we bring good things
to DEATH!" *budda budda budda* |-> but I digress). I've realized that
the reason I was so impressed with the M-134 in "Predator" is that I 
recognized the niche it served as a crew firebase weapon at TL8, the
logical next step after the M-60. Caseless DS rounds that weigh less and
take up less room will allow TL9-10 weapons to have higher ROF and longer
fire-times between reloads, to say nothing of the beginnings of smartgun
control ("Excuse me sir." "Whaddaya want, M-264?" "I just wanted to remind
you that since you very nearly got yourself killed and me captured when
you emptied me panic-firing in that last ambush, I'm limiting you to fifty
round bursts this time." "Oh shut up."). TL11 brings us, at last, to one
of my pet projects dating back to 1980, when I was expanding on the Book 4
rules for my college game: a Gauss firebase weapon, halfway between the
Gauss rifle (empties too quickly) and the VRF Gauss Gun (too big). The
Gauss Machinegun (GMG, for want of a better term) would be bigger and a 
bit heavier than the rifle, have a lot more penetration power and a much
higher ROF, and would gobble needles and amperes from a battery pack/needle
feeder bin worn on the back or fanny. Work it out, gang; a laser pistol
power pack would be able to power such a gun for thousands of rounds, and
at only 3mm diameter, you could pack a LOT of needles in a fanny pack.

I have an NPC in my Pittsburgh game right now, a seven-foot-tall Urzaeng
Vargr with Down's Syndrome and a GMG. He basically feeds himself, keeps
himself clean, and shoots anything that tries to attack the party. He serves
admirably as a means of preventing the players from wasting time worrying
about self-defense and concentrating on meatier gaming fodder....|->

Anyway, enough of this rambling. Midnight-to-eight shifts on the particle
accelerator do this to me....

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2452
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 08:45:03 -0400
From: teets@frith.egr.msu.edu
Subject: Striker


     Semi-legendary Striker rules???  Are people really having problems getting
these things?  Just curious since I saw seven of them this weekend in a game
auction for between $6 and 18.  Just curious since I have seen a lot of them
and am wondering if they are really hard to get a hold of.  If so I could
probably pick some up for under 10 for speculation (plus they are good rules,
an extra set wouldn't kill me.)  So is this really that rare of bird?  Matt.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2453
From: richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Archaic Targeting Systems
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 7:35:16 PDT


Imperial Intelligence Report:
Files on Old Terra - Emerging Cultures Symposium, Case 2:

TL8 Integral Targeting System
(From PC Week, June 17 1991    Story by Neal Boudette)
(Headline and annotations mine)

The U.S. Army has tapped a Houston firm to develop a hand-held
"soldier's computer" with a heads-up display that could could have
applications [sic] in business as well as battle.  

The 1-pound 386-based unit would include a microphone and radio for
sending voice and data, and a joystick for targeting weapons and
directing vehicles and troops, said Michael Stewart, president of
Texas Microsystems Inc.

A heads-up display, which projects a virtual image in front of the
user's eyes, would be mounted on a soldier's helmet or goggles, he
added.

In battle, the computer would allow soldiers in the field to view
real-time maps of troop positions, according to Stewart.

In business, the coputer could be used by auto mechanics, police
officers and medical technicians, he said.

...
=========

Is this a "typical" TL8 development, or is does it simply show up in
heavily militant cultures?


Using TL8 materials, what do you suppose are the "bad" side effects?
Here's a few I just thought of:

   . Is it radiation hardened?

   . How much does the HUD limit peripheral vision?

   . Can the signals from other people's units be jammed, foiled,
     confused? 
	    (I assume the current position info is telemetry, not passive)

   . For that matter, can your own unit be misled?

   . Will reliance on the unit make the wearer more vulnerable when it
     breaks?

   . Does it connect to night-vision equipment?

   . Does it have RFI that gives away your position?


Too bad they're only using a first-generation 32-bit chip.  I think
it would be neat to see one of these integral suit-mounted units
with hard-wired connections to your suit-mounted weapons and
sensors.   I also think it could be done in 1991 (old earth calendar).
I also wonder if their HUD presents a flat or a 3-D image.


What's the real advantage to the nation that possesses this equipment,
both militarily and economically?  Do they have any enemies worthy
of this kind of military sophistication or are they working on
citizen suppression?


[This guy really has a predeliction for 1-sentence paragraphs, and
doesn't seem to know about using "that" and "which" -ZB:  which has
"applications", the HUD or the computer?  Oh well.  Who are we to
judge vagaries of aboriginal grammar?  RJ]
- - -- 
"I didn't burn Fluffy.  I _like_ cats!"               Richard Johnson 
"You like sheep?"                                 richard@oresoft.com
"Uh..Not in the same way.."                    richard@agora.rain.com
"Mm Hmm."            (From: 'Nice Girls Don't Explode')

No offense meant ot anyone who can actually speak, read, write, or
understand any non-"modern" language.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2454
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 09:30:31 -0700
From: tek@PRAM.CS.UCLA.EDU (Ted Kim (Random Dude))


What is the address for the MegaTraveller Journal?
What does it cost per year?
Are back issues also available?

- - -ted

Ted Kim                           Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu
UCLA Computer Science Department  UUCP:     ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek
3804C Boelter Hall                Phone:    (213)206-8696
Los Angeles, CA 90024             FAX:      (213)825-2273

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2455
Date:     Tue, 25 Jun 91 13:58:35 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Another design...

In my face to face Traveller game last night, it became necessary for a 
group of players making an escape from a local government building in the
middle of a coup or civil war (they're not sure yet) to commandeer some
transportation.  Last seen driving back toward the starport at high speed
were three dangerous (?) fugitives in:


Garbage Truck TL7

     The garbage truck is a necessary adjunct of urban life at tech levels of 
'industrial' or above.  Fleets of these vehicles, operated by independent 
businesses or local governments, can be found operating in the streets and 
back alleys of most urban areas.  The model shown below is a typical example, 
equipped with two heavy robot arms to allow immediate transfer of refuse from 
suitably equipped temporary accumulation receptacles.  Since it is only 
intended to operate in civilized areas, long duration was not required.  Two 
way communication allows for immediate dispatch of vehicles to sites with 
full accumulation receptacles.  
 
  CraftID: Garbage Truck, TL7, Cr13,059
     Hull: 3/7, Disp=3, Conf=4USL, Armor=4B, Loaded=30.9t, Unloaded=10.0t
    Power: 1/2, ImpIntComb=1.2MW, Dur=8hrs
     Loco: 1/2, 8 Wheels, P/W=38, Road=122kph, Offroad=37kph
     Comm: Radio=Distant(5km)
  Sensors: 2*Headlights
      Off: Hardpoints=1
      Def: -
  Control: BasicMech*5
    Accom: Crew=2 (Driver, Loader), Seats=2*Roomy, Env=basic env (cab only)
    Other: Fuel=0.6kl, Cargo=20.3kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2456
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 91 19:12:22 EDT
From: 09nilles%cuavax.dnet@netcon.cua.edu (Fiver Toadflax)
Subject: re: Random thoughts on techni, arco and other ologies

This is in response to you comment on the weapons.

> 2. One weapon which I'd heard about but never seen in action before the film
> was the 30mm MiniGun, a gatling weapon firing huge shells at a high rate
> of fire and capable of rendering just about anything into taco filling, up
> to and including armored vehicle.

The weapon was not a 30mm MiniGun.  It is the M134(GAU-28/A). A 7.62 Nato
round MiniGun.  And it is primarily used in ground support by helicoptor
personel. example. the MH-53J.

> The drum-loading grenade rifles were
> also quite interesting, but not as much so since they have an equivalent in
> the Traveller rules.

The weapon exits.  Not sure of its name though.  It has a 6 round 'revolver'
style magzine.  Loaded one round at a time.  Would be interesting to try and
design one....

> What I want to know is, why no MiniGuns in Traveller?

There are Mini-Guns in Traveller they are the 7mm Gatling gun (ref: Striker
book 3) and can be designed using Striker AutoCannon rules.  You just have
to some how interpolate to a smaller round (smallest size capable using
Striker is 20mm).

> Well, that's enough for now; the mini-machine-pistols from Total Recall aren't
> in the rules either. I guesss we need an Arnie supplement for the rules. |->

No we don't need an Arnie suppliment for the rules, we need an
Arnie rules suppliment......

Dave
09nilles@cuavax.dnet.cua.edu

.ps James if this is not suitable for the list, I have already CC's directly
	to Mike.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2457
Subject: MT Journal Address, Cost, Back Issues
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 15:22:54 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


tek@PRAM.CS.UCLA.EDU (Ted Kim (Random Dude)) writes:
> What is the address for the MegaTraveller Journal?

	Digest Group Publications
	515 Willow
	Woodburn, OR 97071
	(503)981-4752

> What does it cost per year?

If I remember correctly, it is no longer available in subscription form
- - - you must buy it from your dealer.  The price is around $5.00 an issue,
and there are going to be (four? some small number) issues published
each year.

> Are back issues also available?

Before it's current incarnation, the MTJ was called "The Traveller's
Digest".  There are very few TD back issues available - I suggest
checking with DGP itself or The Weekend Warrior.  There has only been
issue #1 of the MTJ and it has been extremely popular and his
disappeared from everywhere.

If you write DGP and ask Joe Fugate for explicit permission to photocopy
past issues for personal use, they tend to be pretty relaxed about it.
But make sure you receive their permission in writing to keep the
lawyers happy!

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2458
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 22:05:57 CDT
From: mcknight@f104.n170.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Chuck McKnight)
Subject: MSDOS Compress/Decompress

From:  chuck.mcknight@p0.f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org
Subject: MSDOS compress/decompress

=============================== BEGIN QUOTE ==========================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jun 91 21:51:01 CDT
From: Brian Larkin <UC559687@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject: (2449)      Starship Designs



  I tried to download the starship design files in the traveller/misc
directory. (ST1.z and ST2.z)  I am using a VM/CMS system and alas the
compress program we have only produces garbage for files.  If I had
access to an uncompress program for the IBM-PC I could read them
there instead.  But unfortunatley I don't. Any ideas on how to be able
to decompress these files?  I really would like to have a look at them.

- - - -- Toucan
=============================== END QUOTE =============================

Brian,

    You can get an MSDOS compress from wuarchive.wustl.edu in the
/mirrors/msdos/starter (I think) directory.  Or I have the source
code to one available for download from my bbs (918 834 7402).  First
time callers are given full download privileges.  Other than that, if
you can't find a compress give a yell and I'll ship you a uuencoded one.

Chuck


- - --  
Chuck McKnight - via FidoNet node 1:170/500
UUCP: tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu!tinylk!104!mcknight
INTERNET: chuck.mcknight@p0.f104.n170.z1.FIDONET.ORG

- - --  
Chuck McKnight - via FidoNet node 1:170/500
UUCP: tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu!tinylk!104!mcknight
INTERNET: mcknight@f104.n170.z1.FIDONET.ORG

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2459
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: MegaTraveller Journal
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 1:56:11 EDT

MegaTraveller Journal is being published twice a year, I think.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2460
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Deckplans
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 13:15:03 MET DST

> run across in numerous campaigns.  I also used the archives this past
> weekend and came upon the deckplans.  I thoroughly enjoyed these.  

  Nice that someone likes them.

> Does
> anyone out there have any more that I might look at?

  I suspect that I'll finish plans for a TL11 scout courir soon. I still have
the hard parts left, though:( (ie all the small details of the drives and 
all control panels)

> I know of the
> deckplans that GDW sells and am currently trying to obtain these.

  Seeker (sorry, I don't know their adress) sells a number of deckplans in two
different scales.

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2461
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Speaking about Seeker.
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 13:19:58 MET DST

  ...have anyone seen Seekers 'Consumer Guide' they mention in their ads?
What's in it?

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        tinylk!1!170!104!chuck.mcknight@tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu (Chuck McKnight),
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Subject: TML Bundle #203: Msgs 2462-2484
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 91 21:00:14 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Jun 30 21:00:09 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #203: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2462  26-Jun-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Guns and stuff << If we look at the number of
2463  26-Jun-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha GGG & Challenge40 << GGG sounds like just the
2464  26-Jun-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Striker (was: re: Random thoughts...) << > Fr
2465  26-Jun-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Archaic Targeting Systems << > From: rich
2466  26-Jun-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Hello All! << Hi folks! It's me I'm back! Not
2467  26-Jun-91 Mark F. Cook      Re: Archaic Targeting Systems << In Subject 2
2468  26-Jun-91 Mark F. Cook      Re: GGG & Challenge40 << In Subject 2463, Ber
2469  27-Jun-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Feudal Technocra-what? << Everyone knows what
2470  27-Jun-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Theory of the game << Don't you just hate it 
2471  27-Jun-91 Cynthia Higginbot Dos uncompress << Unless its gone away recent
2472  27-Jun-91 Cynthia Higginbot DOS uncompress, take 2 << make that files/IBM
2473  27-Jun-91 William Henry Tim Archives << Can anyone tell me of some good p
2474  26-Jun-91 Richard Johnson   30 mm not-so-mini guns << Mike (I eat robots 
2475  27-Jun-91 09nilles%cuavax.d re: Striker wpns << > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 17
2476  26-Jun-91 Richard Johnson   Re: Where's Turn 10.x? << So Mark (Drugs, Bet
2477  27-Jun-91 jimp@dg-rtp.dg.CO BTRC & Guns, Guns, Guns << > From: d9bertil@d
2478  27-Jun-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Gun Inflation, etc... << I'm not sure how els
2479  27-Jun-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Miniatures << Does anyone out there use 25mm 
2480  27-Jun-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Do you believe the SOLOMANI theory? << The fo
2481  27-Jun-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Weapons << Hi I forget who but someone wrote 
2482  27-Jun-91 rogopp@Auto-trol. TML nightly: Msgs 2467-2480 V21#14 << [Lots o
2483  28-Jun-91 Dan Corrin        Re: (2479) Miniatures << > Date: Thu, 27 Jun 
2484  28-Jun-91 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. RE: << >TML nightly Wed Jun 26 20:32:25 PDT 1

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2462
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Guns and stuff
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 17:20:12 MET DST

  If we look at the number of different weapons per TL in the lists of
Traveller weapons we will notice one curious thing. There is a lot of
'contemporary' weapons, and the number of weapons per TL goes down as the 
the timedistance ('timedistance'?:) from today gets greater.
  (I'm doing this from memory, so I reserve myself for the errors in advance)
  We have the rifle, the bolt action rifle, the carbine, the hunting rifle, the
autorifle (equivalent to the Squad Automatic Rifle (SAW) I think) several 
calibres of pistols and revolvers, the shotgun, the autoshotgun, two assault
rifles, several machine guns, the submachinegun and so on as examples of 
weapons using the 'brass case' technology.

  Lowtech weapons, of the 'powder and ball' and 'arrow' versions there are a
few.

  For 'caseless' technology weapons, we have the ACR (?), but the snub pistols,
the accelerator rifle and the Assault Rocket Launcher might also be caseless 
weapons, since they fire rocket propelled bullets. It depends on if the initial
launching charge is in the bullet itself or in a brass case.

  Gauss weapons are a small group, there are only the gauss rifle, the gauss
pistol and the Vulcan analogue, the VRF Gauss Gun (Vulcan is the 20mm minigun
that viritually all US fighters use, the VRFGG would have to have at least
penetration 40 for me to call it a GAU-8 analogue:)

  Lasers have the laser rifle, carbine and pistol.

  The high energy weapons are practically the same weapon done at 6 different
TLs.

  The grenades, grenadelaunchers, hand grenades, rifle grenades, recoilless
rifles and all that stuff have a lot of types on a lot of TL's, but the only
new innovation is the RAM grenades (And that's not really new either. It could
be compared with the RAW (Riflemans Assault Weapon, a HE or HEAT rocket powered
thingy fired from an M16 to bust bunkers and vehicles)

  From a military point of view (conventional wisdom, at least) one needs one
weapon for the common rifleman, usually a rifle:)
  There should also be several different support weapons of various portability:
Heavier versions of the riflemans weapon, and some kind of direct & indirect 
explosives projector too.
  The officers need something light like an pistol and all the rest needs a
good and light defence weapon.

  Add to this the civilian versions of the above, the hunting rifles and so on.

  So, what is my point with all this? The point is that a lot of weapons that
logically (In my opinion, at least:) should exist on the higher TL's doesn't
exist in Traveller. Where is for example all the caseless versions of 
contemporary weapons? Where is the light manportable pulse laser support 
weapon? Where is the gauss SMG (or if you think that the current gauss pistol
is really a SMG equivalent: Where is the non-auto gauss pistol?) Where is the
gauss shotgun?

  One of the troublesome result of these holes in the list of weapons is that a
force equipped to something more than TL9 won't have the capability that it 
could have. I think this is one of the basic causes of the 'This TL's infantry
weapon can't penetrate this TL's infantry armour' problem.
  I also think that the fact that a lot of people introduce non-standard 
weapons that fills these holes are an indicator that the problem is a real one.
Examples are Mikes Gauss MG and the Painter (Laser MG that works by letting
it's beam scan over a designated area, thats where the name comes from) from
my own campaign.

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2463
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: GGG & Challenge40
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 17:26:36 MET DST

  GGG sounds like just the thing for an armchair infantry weapons freak like 
me:) Now for the questions: What is BTRC and do they export to overseas? 
And am I correct in guessing that Challenge 40 is that equippment issue that 
is totally out of print:(

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2464
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Striker (was: re: Random thoughts...)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 17:52:24 MET DST

> From: 09nilles%cuavax.dnet@netcon.cua.edu (Fiver Toadflax)
> Subject: (2456) re: Random thoughts on techni, arco and other ologies
> 
> There are Mini-Guns in Traveller they are the 7mm Gatling gun (ref: Striker
> book 3) and can be designed using Striker AutoCannon rules.  You just have
> to some how interpolate to a smaller round (smallest size capable using
> Striker is 20mm).

  A slight problem with Striker is that very small bore/low power weapons 
designed with it will be less effective than small arms from the lists. For a 
striking (excuse the pun) example, look at the lowest power vehicle beam laser 
in the MegaT vechicle design rules (The weapons in there were apparently 
designed with Strikers system for designing weapons. If I remember is correctly
it draws half a megawatt and has a penetration of 5. Any designer that uses 
this laser must be crazy, for a laser-rifle will be both more effective and use
less power....
  And then we haven't thought of how a 4mm bore hypervelocity massdriver firing
KEAP ammo can get a penetration of 20 (the VRFGG).

  So my recommendation for a relatively small very high rate of fire weapon with
resonable penetration would be a number of gaussrifles strapped togeather:)

- - -bertil-
PS. the dtek domain at chalmers will be exchanging old suns for new ones (No,
the Darrians are not involved:) so the common server *might* be down for a day 
sometime soon. Don't be alarmed if something bounces.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2465
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Archaic Targeting Systems
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 18:05:48 MET DST

> From: richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson)
> Subject: (2453) Archaic Targeting Systems
> 
> A heads-up display, which projects a virtual image in front of the
> user's eyes, would be mounted on a soldier's helmet or goggles, he
> added.
 
  Permit me to doubt the practicallity of it. I know how hard it is to keep a 
helmet and a pair of ear protectors on straight while using a weapons at night:)

  Other than that, I think the greatest problem is the batteries. The computer
part will be easy enough to power, but the display and especially the radio
will eat batteries like popcorn.

  Other problems might be that the light leaking out of the HUD alerts enemies,
and the incredible amount of chatter over the radio that probably will result
from every soldier having a radio of their own.

> "I didn't burn Fluffy.  I _like_ cats!"               Richard Johnson 

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2466
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1991 00:09 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Hello All!

Hi folks!

It's me I'm back!  Not that I v'e ever actually been on the list, but I now
actually have a computer account, but I have contributed before, much to 
every ones chagrin, but I hope that you will put that behind you and accept my
formal and humble request to join your list.   (PLEASE!?)

Now that I'm a grad student I won't have the time to bug you all with loads of
craft designs so you can all breath easy.

Has anyone out there noticed that the thrust to weight ratios in trav and the
speeds predicted are totally crazy?  you need a ratio of 1G to get to 1200kph!
or something like that.  Here is a partial list of real data points.

aircraft	t/wt	top speed
Tu-22		.2917	1480kph
B-1A		.3038	2232kph (original design speed)
Tu-26		.4190	2445kph
F-111		.4590	2655kph
Mig-25		.7168	3380kph

SR-71		.3824	3186kph    some of these speeds may be low but that
makes them a safe bet.

Of course changing the existing speeds means a revolution in speed for all
vehicles.  However I must point out that the thrust generated by all trav
turbine engines is hugely exaggerated.  the highest thrust engine I have found
are the high bypass turbines of the 747 ie 21 metric 'tons' of thrust. followed
by the 18 'ton' thrust of the twin engine Tu-26 mach 2 heavy bomber(engines
originally develloped for the Tu-144 supersonic transport)

so we have to revamp COACC's engines thrust output too!

By the way, has anyone ever considered the possibility of broadcast power in 
trav?  New power plant Idea #765

Same size weight cost output etc as a fission reactor but no fuel!
Power input?  decaying mesons from a meson gun.  Required:  Direct
coommunications link to power source (if military must be at least a maser comm
we don't want that signal varying or subject to jamming!)  Probably a max range 
of Planetary where meson gun accuracy starts to fall off. 


#766  Laser powered boiler.  Solar cells would get burned off to easily, but
suppose you have a non X-ray laser captured by a parabolic mirror and focused on
a collector (perhaps defocused to prevent burning the plant to slag) again 
planetary range restrictions (beam columation problems)

Object will have very low agility when at long range.  course changes must 
be sent to the power source in advance to maintain beam focus.  Of course if
the vehicle is using a radio to maintain its link it is broadcasting its
 position for all to hear...  Just what a gunner wants to know...
Still it is an interesting idea yesno?

	Anyway, I hope this gets through, I never have used a VAX before.

Scott S. Kellogg

P.S.  Half of the Vargr you meet are sons of bitches.
	The other half *are* bitches!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2467
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: Archaic Targeting Systems
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 23:26:24 PDT

In Subject 2453, richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson) writes about a new
in-helmet HUD system for infantry.

> . Is it radiation hardened?

As a MilSpec device, it *has* to be, otherwise the DoD won't authorize
the purchase.  As an employee of a military contractor (among other things),
trust me on this one. :-)

> . How much does the HUD limit peripheral vision?

Built into a helmet?  Lots.  Find out how many military Helos have crashed
at night because the pilot was wearing a 'night vision system', and ran
into a power line or something equally pathetic.  Imagine a soldier wearing
this thing, crashing around in the brush, because he keeps tripping over
roots he can't see very well.

> . Can the signals from other people's units be jammed, foiled,
>   confused? 
>         (I assume the current position info is telemetry, not passive)

Not neccessarily.  If they have the equivalent of a SINS (Ships Internal
Navigation System), they don't need telemetry.  Just spin up the gyro,
feed it a very accurate initial position, and you're ready to go.  Subs
use these because they can't get navsat signals when they're at operational
depths.  (Right, Carl?)

> . For that matter, can your own unit be misled?

Nope.  See previous answer.

> . Will reliance on the unit make the wearer more vulnerable when it
>   breaks?

Depends upon how stupid (or lazy) the soldier is.  ("Gee.  My life
preserver just sprang a leak.  Too bad I never learned how to swim!") :-)

> . Does it connect to night-vision equipment?

An NVS is maginally useful for pilots (see above), and more useful for
a stationary spotter (like a sentry or sniper).  For a person trying to
move around on foot, it's probably not much more than dead weight.

> . Does it have RFI that gives away your position?

MilSpec would prevent it from having enough to do that.

> What's the real advantage to the nation that possesses this equipment,
> both militarily and economically?

Maybe less than you think.  (Picture this: high-tech 21st century ground-
pounder stumbles around half-blind while Afghani Mujahadeen (sic) creep
up out of their foxholes and slip a sharp knife into his shrapnel-stopping
Kevlar vest.)

Then, Bertil (d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se) writes:

> > From: richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson)
> > Subject: (2453) Archaic Targeting Systems
> > 
> > A heads-up display, which projects a virtual image in front of the
> > user's eyes, would be mounted on a soldier's helmet or goggles, he
> > added.
>  
>   Permit me to doubt the practicallity of it. I know how hard it is to keep
> a helmet and a pair of ear protectors on straight while using a weapons at
> night:)

Yup.  What he said. :-)

>   Other than that, I think the greatest problem is the batteries. The
> computer part will be easy enough to power, but the display and especially
> the radio will eat batteries like popcorn.

Hmmm.  Maybe, but I think a good design would overcome both of these
problems.  The display can't be too bright or it zaps the soldiers
night vision.  As for radio, I imagine it would be strictly LOS with
a very limited range (say, 5 klicks).

>   Other problems might be that the light leaking out of the HUD alerts
> enemies, and the incredible amount of chatter over the radio that probably
> will result from every soldier having a radio of their own.

Again, I don't think there would be enough light leakage to be a problem.
As for radio chatter, most of that could be controlled by rigid commo
discipline and no VOX activation.  If you have to think about it before
you push the 'transmit' button, you'll be amazed at how much it cuts down
on the idle chatter.

Later,
	- Mark C.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2468
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: GGG & Challenge40
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 23:28:16 PDT

In Subject 2463, Bertil writes:

>   GGG sounds like just the thing for an armchair infantry weapons freak like 
> me:) Now for the questions: What is BTRC and do they export to overseas? 

BTRC is Blackburg Tactical Research Center, and is responsible for the
'Timelords' RPG.  'Guns! Guns! Guns!' (or '3G', as it's more commonly
called) is an outgrowth of that game is is billed as providing "Gun
design for *any* RPG'.  I've used it and it does seem to work for MT,
complicated though it may be.  I don't recall what I paid for my copy
($8.95 or something similiar).  I don't know if Greg Porter (the creator)
exports, but the address is:

	Blackburg Tactical Research Center
	1925 Airy Circle
	Richmond, VA 23233

> And am I correct in guessing that Challenge 40 is that equippment issue that 
> is totally out of print:(

Oh, contraire!  According to my Weekend Warrior catalog, back issues are
still available at the going rate of $3.25.  Again, that address is:

	Weekend Warrior
	8116 Van Noord Ave
	N. Hollywood, CA 91605
	(818) 988-1441

Didn't James and I send you a catalog, Bertil?  (Boy, we *should* be
getting a commission!) :-)

Later,
	- Mark C.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2469
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Feudal Technocra-what?
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 9:54:12 MET DST

  Everyone knows what a charismatic dictator is. Likewise with a religious
dictatorship. What `Balcanized' means is unfortunately self-explanatory.
But what is a feudal technocracy? Is there or has there ever been such a
creature on Terra? Does anyone know a book which describes one? How does it
work? What are the distinguishing characteristics of it?

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2470
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Theory of the game
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 11:54:16 MET DST

  Don't you just hate it when someome issues a broadcast message that mucks up 
the editor once every five minutes:( I have 40 minutes to finish this so we'll 
see if I manage to make my point before the end is here:)
  
  Some weeks ago, the tv here showed 'The Longest Day' which prompted me to
hunt through the bookshelf after the original book by Cornelius Ryan and got me
thinking about the problems that would appear if the characters in a campaign
got a pan-galactic too much and enrolled in the ground force of some faction.
  
  I normally supports the idea that there shouldn't be any difference between
a PC and an NPC from a game-mechanical point of view, but playing out an entire
planetary invasion looks as unappealing as rolling all the 'to hit' and 'to
penetrate' tasks of a 200 battery batron salvoe:)

  One workable solution might be to look at it from the characters standpoint:
They see just a small part of it, and they don't know about all those bullets
that arn't aimed in their general vicinity. In game-terms this would probably
be something like a task to avoid getting shot at during a certain interval
of time (COACC uses this approach with regards to small arms fire vs low flying
a/c) and some sort of random list of what types of weapons the enemy uses.
Has anyone done something like this? Did it work?

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2471
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 09:07:21 CDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cynthia@CS.MsState.Edu>
Subject: Dos uncompress

	Unless its gone away recently, trantor.ee.msstate.edu has 
a DOS version of GNU compress/uncompress available for anonymous ftp.
should be in pub/files or pub/f/ibm. something or other.  (This is
where MARS BBS stores its files, so that's why the odd directory structure.)
					--- Cynthia

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2472
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 09:13:16 CDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cynthia@CS.MsState.Edu>
Subject: DOS uncompress, take 2

	make that files/IBM.archives on trantor.ee.msstate.edu.  I just
checked.  They have uncompre.zip and 2 different DOS tar or untar progs.
Now, how do I unshar SW1.Z, etc under DOS??
			-- Cynthia

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2473
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 12:03:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Archives

Can anyone tell me of some good places to pick up deckplans and other
visual materials? I don't use MegaTraveller myself, but I do enjoy
looking at visuals from any game.

- - -Me
[Pooh Bear incarnate.]

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2474
Subject: 30 mm not-so-mini guns
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 15:08:36 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

Mike (I eat robots for breakfast) Metlay was talking about the 30 mm
cannon he saw on "Predator".  (See how often I get time to read the
mailing list?)  I got to see one of those close up a couple of weeks
ago at the air show here in town.

They had this A-10 ("Thunderbolt II" or "Warthog" - take your pick)
sitting on the pad.  The gun is mounted in the nose about eye level
for most U.S. males.  It has six enormous barrels.  Looking into 
one gives a calidescopic effect.  The riflings have the tightest 
twist I've ever seen.  Looked like about 1 full revolution for each
6 inches or so of travel.

I think Mike's comment about "lightly" armored is true only in the
sense of light for TL10 and up.  :=)

I think the other reason they are considered non-portable is because
of the weight of the ammo.  *I* don't want to carry a grav sled 
with 100 rds/second of 30 mm ammo.

Richard

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2475
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 10:50:08 EDT
From: 09nilles%cuavax.dnet@netcon.cua.edu (Fiver Toadflax)
Subject: re: Striker wpns

> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 17:52:24 MET DST
> From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
> Subject: (2464) Striker (was: re: Random thoughts...)
> 
>   A slight problem with Striker is that very small bore/low power weapons
> designed with it will be less effective than small arms from the lists. For a
> striking (excuse the pun) example, look at the lowest power vehicle beam laser
> in the MegaT vechicle design rules (The weapons in there were apparently
> designed with Strikers system for designing weapons. If I remember is correctly
> it draws half a megawatt and has a penetration of 5. Any designer that uses
> this laser must be crazy, for a laser-rifle will be both more effective and use
> less power....
>   And then we haven't thought of how a 4mm bore hypervelocity massdriver firing
> KEAP ammo can get a penetration of 20 (the VRFGG).

True.  I tried 'unsigning' the standard energy wpns using Striker and the
stats given in Striker.  And I was very unsuccessful.   I then tried to
design an autocannon for personal use.....
  It was a 2cm bore and came out to be about 20kg not including ammo.
(I don't remember all of it.  It never worked and it was about 5 years ago)

                 Dave

+-----------------------------------------+
|          09nilles@cua.bitnet            |
|      09nilles@cuavax.dnet.cua.edu       |
| Fiver.Toadflax@f329.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG |
+-----------------------------------------+

"Cancel the kitchen scraps for the lepars and orphans.
    No more merciful beheadings.
	and Call off Christmas"
		-- Sheriff of Nottingham
		   Robinhood, Prince of Theives

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2476
Subject: Re: Where's Turn 10.x?
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 21:07:23 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

So Mark (Drugs, Better dying through chemistry) Cook says:

:Speaking of the PBEM (Huh?  What's he talking about?), Richard, when are
:we going to see turn 10.10, or 11.0, or whatever you're going to call the
:next one?  I think a decent suicide deserves a decent obituary, don't you? :-)

It's sooo tempting to say "shut up Adrian. You're dead."  :=)
Actually, summer caught up with alot of the players before I actually
got a chance to sync the Aslan/native thing with the Alcyon entering
the system.  Right now, I'm discussing with whoever wants to how I 
should deal with the next turn.  It might be wrap-up of what's 
happened to date, or a restart a couple of game years in the future,
or something else.

I'm also working out the psi-encounter overhead and trying to figure
out how keep the good posting/contribution going on, while also doing
something about the common complaint that characters feel "left out".
Yes, it's common.  I've even felt that way myself in this particular
game, and I'm wrestling with how to fix that without butchering the
fine contributions we're getting.

See how I've already put you to sleep and not answered?  Should I
become a lawyer, maybe?  :=)   I'll shoot for a broadcast around 
July 5 or 6.  How's that sound?


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2477
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 13:44:21 edt
From: jimp@dg-rtp.dg.COM (Jim Pendergraft)
Subject: BTRC & Guns, Guns, Guns

> From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
> 
>   GGG sounds like just the thing for an armchair infantry weapons freak like 
> me:) Now for the questions: What is BTRC and do they export to overseas? 

BTRC is the Blacksburg Tactical Research Center, which is a small gaming
company that started at Virginia Tech (in Blacksburg, VA).  Greg Porter
is the guy that does most of the development work.  It is now based in
Richmond.  Anyway, he has one main game called Time Lords, which has a
very realistic but somewhat complex combat system.  That is the one that
uses all the parameters and stuff you saw in GGG.  He has a couple of
scenario books for Time Lords, plus GGG, and a couple of other spoof games
along the lines of "Mutant Biker Nuns from Hell" or something like that.
I knew him at VT, and my friends and I playtested Time Lords thru many
variations and campaigns.  It was a lot of fun.  And GGG is just the thing
for you armchair infantry weapons freaks - Greg is one and he wrote it!
Plus there were several others in our group.  A LOT of research went into
it as well, so current tech designs are very realistic.  Future tech weapons
are also dealt with, but depend on assumptions that may or may not fit with
the typical trav campaign - things like battery storage density vs. tech level.
But you could certainly have fun and learn a lot from trying it out.

BTRC does not export overseas themselves, but they are available thru
many dealers and distributors.  I got mine from a mail order place called
Adventure Games Unlimited (where everything is 35% off retail).  They do
ship overseas.  Email me if you want more info on them and I will send it
to the mailing list.  They have nearly every game in print, plus lots of
miniature figures and also some books and magazines.

Jim

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2478
Date:     Thu, 27 Jun 91 15:08:17 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Gun Inflation, etc...

I'm not sure how else to title this one.  One of the conceptual problems
I have had lately with Traveller is trying to figure out what future combat
would look like.  It seems that the introduction of the grav vehicle ought
to increase the pace of battle so much as to make the invasion of Kuwait
look lethargic.  Along the same lines, it would appear that vehicles suffer
from much the same problem that Bertil noted yesterday regarding infantry
weapons: they appear to be seriously undergunned in proportion to their 
potential.  We have also been informed that as the TLs go up, the distinctions
between different classes of combat craft (tanks, fighters, system defense
boats) blur until the only thing distinguishing them is size.  Thinking along
these lines, I present:


Phalanx Ground Support Gunship TL15

     The Phalanx was designed in 1092 and deployed in limited numbers by 
corps level heavy support battalions in the Spinward Marches during the Fifth 
Frontier War.  While intended as a fire support vehicle for task forces of 
smaller grav combat vehicles, it has a secondary role as a near orbit space 
fighter relying on its dual heavy fusion gun mount.  Its heavy armor gives it 
near immunity against anything short of a light meson gun.  
     The secondary armament is arranged in four circles of turrets perpendic-
ular to the long axis of the craft, so that at least three of the turrets of 
each circle can fire at any given target.  Much of the fire is fully automat-
ed, with the gunner primarily serving to prioritize and designate targets 
which are then engaged by the available weapons until sensors indicate that 
they have been destroyed.

  CraftID: Phalanx Gunship, TL15, MCr337
     Hull: 72/180, Disp=80, Conf=1AF, Armor=75G, Loaded=5387t
    Power: 26/52, Fusion=7290MW, Dur=29hrs
     Loco: 27/54, StdGrav=20000t, MaxSpeed=2650kph, Cruise=1988kph, 
           NOE=190kph, MaxAccel=2.7G
     Comm: Radio=System, LaserComm=System, MaserComm=System
  Sensors: EMM, EMS Active(Far Orbit), EMS Jammer(Far Orbit), EMS 
           Passive(Interstellar), High Pen Densitometer(1km), Neutrino 
           Sensor(10kw), ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine, 
           PassObjScan=Routine, PassObjPin=Routine, PassEnScan=Simple, 
           PassEnPin=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=1 (Space Weapons=FusionGun 5*2)

                       Pen/          Max    Auto   Dngr
                       Attn    Dmg   Range  Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
   2*Fusion Gun (ship) 103/5   900   Planet  2      45     H     60
12*4 RPY-15 Fusion Gun  71/5    30  Dist(21) 4      45     H    320
 4*4 50MW Pulse Laser   51/4    60  Reg(250) 4       -     H    320

      Def: Point Defense Targeting for quad beam laser turrets
  Control: Comp7*3, 3*HeadsUpHoloDisplay, 40*HoloLink
    Accom: Crew=3 (Commander, Gunner, Pilot), Seats=ExtOccRoomy*3, Env=basic 
           env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=107.2kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Moderate

The marginal cost of adding more weapons to an already existing platform seems
to be pretty low compared to adding additional platforms.  I would expect that
armed forces would strike some balance between multi-weapon platforms and
single/small number of weapon platforms based on their perception of the risks
or benefits of concentration of firepower.  I _think_ that this ought to be
able to destroy any equal cost collection of grav vehicles from the 101 
Vehicles book, especially if you allow some rule as discussed a few weeks ago
to give it an advantage for its Model 7 computer system. (I should also point
out that I think the values given in Book 1 and copied above for a ship class
fusion gun are unreasonable).

I also think that it is time to rethink the 1 turret/100 tons of displacement
rule, since this bird could have easily powered 6 additional starship fusion
guns in lieu of the secondary armament.

I only put enough fuel in for a day's worth of combat--I'm thinking that the
fighting phase of a planetary assault wouldn't last long enough to require
refueling during the critical part of the operation (that is, while the enemy's
grav fighters were still contesting the invasion...once the tanks are beaten 
the infantry is reduced to impotence as far as I can see...surrender or be
dug or blasted out, if necessary by infantry using things like this beast as
back-up.)

Any comments?

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2479
Date:     Thu, 27 Jun 91 14:47:27 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Miniatures

Does anyone out there use 25mm miniatures as visual aids during Traveller
games?  What have you found that "looks" like a Traveller character?

Rob


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2480
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1991 21:50 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Do you believe the SOLOMANI theory?

The following is a translation from the Gveug by Scott S. Kellogg

Dr. Rammduzer Tuerz esteemed sociologist...

	I would like to express my disgust with many members of the
Vargr scientific community and the scientific community at large on
the matter of Vargr natural heritige.

	Many of my collegues have dropped their charisma far to low
on the issue, and are unworthy to clean my boots.  They shoud hang 
their tails in shame!

	Because of the influence of the ancients, Many of the so called
Major races developed theri technologies on planets alien to their 
genetic origins.  The Aslan, The Hivers, and the (untranslatable) plant
hunters of (untranslatable) dubious intelligence K'Kree are the only
native of their own world.  Consequently most of our knowlege on
the biology of humans and Vargr come from who?.... The SOLOMANI????

	The Solomani manifesto is clear.  For many centuries before they
obtained spaceflight (during which time The Vargr conquered vast tracts
of space) the Solomani used their knowlege of genetics and biology to
subordinate subspecies of their own race.  Mass murders occured for
prejudiced reasons and were called science.  The small continent of
Austrailia was a penal colony for 'The Criminal Type' (The translator
apologises) Obvious Idiocy!  Now The Solomani claim to be the ultimate
humans?!  HA! (Untranslatable)

	These are the scientists who tell us that the Vargr were
genetically engineered...  AND YOU BELIEVE THEM????????

	
It is my firm belief that the data on the fossil records of earth has
been falsified by these (untranslatable)s.  It is my contention that Vargr
were the original intelligent life form of earth.
The Ancients came in and decided to try to use us as slaves.  Perhaps they
did make some changes in our genes but these surely were not major ones.
Vargr DO NOT make good slaves.  Every time it has been tried it fails
Vargr respect charisma, not weapons.
	Any one who tries to keep Vargr slaves will have to spend a lot
of money on guards.  And a slave owner that allows a vargr slave near a
weapon will not live long...
	Human history is full of slavery.  It was from humans that
Vargr learned to keep slaves.   If the Ancients wanted us as slaves they
really (untranslatable) that one.

	Humans have obviously been engineered, look at the different minor
and major human races and you will see that easily.  I believe that the
humans were constructed from primates.  For Millenia on Earth humans
believed that they had been created!!!!!!!  The theory of evolution was
ridiculed because the religeons knew that humans were constructed!!!!!
Plus there are ancient legends of Vargr on old Earth:  The Were Wolf
A large sapient life form which matches the description of a Vargr!!
These creatures were hated and FEARED!!!!!  As the Solomani Fear Vargr
now!!!

	Yet in spite of all this evidence, my (untranslatable)
collegues have accepted this line of  (untranslatable)
And what is the NAME of this evil smelling putrescent (untranslatable)
theory???   THE SOLOMANI THEORY?!?!?!?!?!?

	AND YOU BELIEVE IT??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I (translated as "strongly reject") this nose full of feces!

I do not disagree that Vargr may have had some small genetic manipulation
But there is NO GOOD SOLID UNSUSPECT SOURCE OF EVIDENCE to suggest that
Vargr did not evolve naturally!!!!!!!!!
	Science is as full of prejudice as anthing else in life.  The
opinions of the researcher can and do show up as prejudice in the data!
It's all a matter of what data is discarded as false data points.
I do NOT beleive ANY thing that a SOLOMANI says about eugenics!
Neither should you or the rest of the galaxy!!!!!

	My tail stands proud and my charisma is undaunted by the
SOLOMANI THEORY!!!!!  I tell you that the Solomani monkey boys are
making their monkey laughs at you.  Stand proud, Tails HIGH, and
Bite for the throat of the next Human who tells you otherwise!

Dr. Rammduzer Tuerz

PS  Refrain from calling our old world Lair.  The name comes from
SOLOMANI origin.

	(The translator apologises for his inexperience with the
subtleties of Gveug.  I'm only human.)

how's that for food for thought and role playing?
Mr. Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2481
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1991 22:43 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Weapons

Hi

I forget who but someone wrote about the low number of hight tech weapons

Suggestion #1956  Multi barrel plasma/fusion guns?
Suggestion #1957  High tech cluster bombs?
Suggestion #1957  man portable meson guns?
Suggestion #1957  man portable charged particle accelerators?

back in one of the OLD journals they had a TL15 spinal particle mount
the 'V' gun.  "Vaporize"  it was an A-PAWS Anti matter particle
accelerator weapons system.  They were HUGE and POWER HUNGRY!
But you could chop a planet  to bits with 144 shots from a spinal mount.
I also remember reading something (probably not approved) about the 
possibility of using an ordinary scout ship.  Use it's TOKAMAK or TORSATRON
fusion reactor as a plasma containment device but the plasma is anti-matter
drop one on a starport and BOOM!

Sure it's a lot more bulky that the TL 17 missile but hey!
After all,, here we are with TL7-8 equipment turning out small amounts of
antimatter?  couldn't you at TL15 build up enough after a while for a bomb?
at TL 5 we couldn't get ANY plutonium but at 6 you can get enough to make
a bomb.

Also, how do you handle FAE bombs in trav?  (Fuel Air EXplosive) TL 7-8?

Full of questions,

Mr. Scotty

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2482
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 23:38:27 MDT
From: rogopp@Auto-trol.COM (Roger Opperman)
Subject: TML nightly: Msgs 2467-2480 V21#14


[Lots of discussion about the new military helmet omitted.]

> . How much does the HUD limit peripheral vision?

Built into a helmet?  Lots.  Find out how many military Helos have crashed
at night because the pilot was wearing a 'night vision system', and ran
into a power line or something equally pathetic.  Imagine a soldier wearing
this thing, crashing around in the brush, because he keeps tripping over
roots he can't see very well.

> . Does it connect to night-vision equipment?

An NVS is maginally useful for pilots (see above), and more useful for
a stationary spotter (like a sentry or sniper).  For a person trying to
move around on foot, it's probably not much more than dead weight.

> What's the real advantage to the nation that possesses this equipment,
> both militarily and economically?

Maybe less than you think.  (Picture this: high-tech 21st century ground-
pounder stumbles around half-blind while Afghani Mujahadeen (sic) creep
up out of their foxholes and slip a sharp knife into his shrapnel-stopping
Kevlar vest.)


Sorry, Mark, but you're way off base on this.  As a former
"practicing" infantryman, I think it has been a while since you've
used night vision gear.  The primary factor to consider when you're a
grunt humping in the bush at night is that you can't see ANYTHING
anyway; take it from me -- having to turn your head to see the root in
shades of green beats the hell out of tripping over it when you can't
see your hand in front of your face.  Modern low-light NVS goggles are
fine for driving and MUCH more than adequate for walking.  Admittedly,
helo pilots do have a problem, but flying takes a HELL of a lot more
peripheral vision than walking.  When we get the thermal sights they
use on AFV's down to a reasonable size, things will be even better.  I
expect they would equip everyone with the things now except for the
cost and battery problems.

As for radios, most infantry squad and team NCO's carry at least a
radio receiver now.  The military really got ripped on these things --
we used to go out and buy the Radio Shack voice-activated radios `cause
the issue ones were so bad.  Having everyone in the platoon on the
same frequency but only allowing the leaders to transmit would be a
substantial advantage.

If they do a decent job on the design, these helmets could be a real
"Good Thing".  Picture the Afghani with his knife being drilled at 200
meters by the infantryman with adequate night vision.  :)


Regards,

Roger Opperman


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2483
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 91 09:49:16 EDT
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re:  (2479)  Miniatures


> Date:     Thu, 27 Jun 91 14:47:27 EDT
> From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
> Subject: (2479)  Miniatures
> 
> Does anyone out there use 25mm miniatures as visual aids during Traveller
> games?  What have you found that "looks" like a Traveller character?
> 
> Rob
> 
I find the Battletech figures quite suitable (not the 'mechs, the ground
types).

Of course the Grenadier Traveller figs are very good, but they are
out of production as far as I know.

Other suggestions could be shadowrun figures or any modern period figures
for that matter. The range of weapons of course won't be available, but
my chracters still run around with 7mm rifles.

The hard part is providing vehicles, horses just don't cut it. I have
gone to auctions looking for good vehicles and not found too much. The
old 15mm line of traveller figs produced a couple (air/raft, and a
wheeled vehicle), but there isn't too much for 25mm vehicles (There's
a lot of lead in a good scale vehicle - even the 15mm air/raft weighs
about a kilo).

					-Dan

Dan Corrin, Network Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
TML/CZ FTP site coordinator:     dan@engrg.uwo.ca.        (519) 661-3834


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2484
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 91 17:08 EDT
Subject: RE:

>TML nightly     Wed Jun 26 20:32:25 PDT 1991    Volume 21 : Issue 13
>
/* Bertil's posting ---------------------------

>Subject: (2462) Guns and stuff
>
>  If we look at the number of different weapons per TL in the lists of
>Traveller weapons we will notice one curious thing. There is a lot of
>'contemporary' weapons, and the number of weapons per TL goes down as the
>the timedistance ('timedistance'?:) from today gets greater.

Could this be caused by downright unimaginitiveness on the part of GDW's staff?
I am not saying I would have done any better....:)  Perhaps whoever was
compiling lists of weapons per tech level, just didn't imagine those dozen or
so weapons we could have come up with if we'd thought about it?

Are those people who were involved in the TDR sig for new weapons still around?
Did you'ns compile a list of new weapons?  Can we see it?
>
>  So, what is my point with all this? The point is that a lot of weapons that
>logically (In my opinion, at least:) should exist on the higher TL's doesn't
>exist in Traveller. Where is for example all the caseless versions of
>contemporary weapons? Where is the light manportable pulse laser support

Here is a question for all you military types (or armchair weaponeers).   Do
cased rounds have any inherent advantages over caseless rounds?  In my game
(which I hope to start up again *REAL SOON NOW*  :)), I have arbitrarily
decided that all explosively-propelled slug throwers tech 9 and above use
caseless ammo.  Does this sound reasonable?  Arguments for?  Against?

>
>  So my recommendation for a relatively small very high rate of fire weapon   h
>wit
>resonable penetration would be a number of gaussrifles strapped togeather:)

Sounds like something Arnold Schwartznegger (sp?) might use.  Or in Aliens
where whats-her-name strapped two of those assault rifles together....

/* Scott Kellog's post---------
>
>#766  Laser powered boiler.  Solar cells would get burned off to easily, but
>suppose you have a non X-ray laser captured by a parabolic mirror and focused n
>o
>a collector (perhaps defocused to prevent burning the plant to slag) again
>planetary range restrictions (beam columation problems)
>
This was proposed as a power scheme for jet airliners what, 15 years ago?  The
idea was to leave enough jet fuel for takeoffs and landings and a margin for
emergencies if the beam cut off.  Once you got high enough the laser satellite
cut in and you turn off the jet engines.  The laser beam heated the atmosphere
for propulsion.  It was supposed to use frequencies that wouldn't penetrate to
the ground in case something went wrong (like terrorists, or aiming problems).

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Jul  3 21:00:14 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #204: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2485  28-Jun-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au GUNS! << Hi, Three of four years ago I saw an
2486  28-Jun-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Galactic Plots... << Hi folx, Here is an odd 
2487  28-Jun-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Victoria << Here's a question for the histori
2488  29-Jun-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Futile Technocracy << (as it's sometimes call
2489  01-Jul-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Miniatures << "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@cr
2490  01-Jul-91 Mark F. Cook      Re: NVS systems << In subject 2482, Roger Opp
2491  01-Jul-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Feudal Technocra-what? << d9bertil@dtek.c
2492  29-Jun-91 Jo Jaquinta       Library Data Program -- Testers Wanted << Sor
2493  30-Jun-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Stuff... << Here is some more silly stuff, Wh
2494  01-Jul-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Theory of the game << d9bertil@dtek.chalm
2495  01-Jul-91 zonker%ihlpf.att. 25mm Traveller Figures << Currently there are
2496  28-Jun-91 Carl Fago         Re: 2453, Infantry HUDs << In Subject 2467, m
2497  01-Jul-91 carson@tron.bwi.W Getting together at Origins << Is anybody fro
2498  01-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Weak minded Low charisma police << So Inspect
2499  02-Jul-91 boerge@tellus.uni Re: TML nightly: Msgs 2489-2498 V21#17 << I'm
2500  02-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Lost mail:( << If anyone of you have sent me 
2501  02-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Origins << What I would suggest for those of 
2502  02-Jul-91 jpb@umbio.med.mia 25 mm Traveller Miniatures << Citadel puts ou
2503  02-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2493) Stuff... << Scott Kellogg writes: 
2504  02-Jul-91 ware@arc           << =========================================
2505  03-Jul-91 wew@naucse.cse.na TDR files. << Where are the most up to date T

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2485
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1991 17:58 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: GUNS!

Hi,

Three of four years ago I saw an article about an new (and nasty) gun
Picture a featureless black box approx 4"x1.1"x10" (if i can remember it)
it has small seams along the case.  In three seconds the box can be
unfolded along those seams to form an SMG.  In two seconds the 20 round
magazine can be emptied.  total elapsed time 5 sec.

This was one of the nasty things in the back pages of popular science in
1988 '87?

I use it as a nice consealable weapon for Intelligence types
It was supposed to be a weapon for body guards to protect political and
other important figures who dont want a lot of nasty hardware in sight
when they are among the populus  (bad for their image?)

TL advancement

The hand held weapon seems to appear two TL after the turret weapon.

TL7 ship laser ---> TL9 laser rifle
TL10 Ships plasma-> TL12 PGMP
TL12 Ships fusion-> TL14 FGMP

So what about a Particle accelerator?
Meson Gun
And why are there no meson guns to be vehicle mounted?  just a light gun (that can cut through anything...
	any ideas?
what about a ship mounted neural weapon? hehehehehehehehehhe...

Mr. Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2486
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1991 21:50 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Galactic Plots...

Hi folx,

Here is an odd question to the Referees out there....

What is your favorite galactic conspiracy?

I'm afraid I do not use the shattered imperium setting, I set it up in
classic Trav time ie 1102-3 pre fifth frontier war Spinward marches and
Foreven Sector (foreven is my own designed sector comprised of amber zone
articles and other adventure planets)

As a ref I like to set the players up against something very powerful
such that their actions can have galactic implications.

I generally start them off with something small low power when they run
into the tip of the tentacle of a BIG plot...
As they progress they gain power and gradually learn what's going on
until they work their way to the heart of the octapus.

Is there anyone else who likes this style?

I am curious what big plots against the galaxy someone else has come up with.

Here is mine (One of my ex-players will read this and say Ho! HO! so that's
what was going on.  {Hi Steve!  How do I send you mall?})

Colonel Baremkatalasche' was the head of SORAG, the Zho covert operations
organization for Spinward Marches & Ikar (Foreven).  He worked his way up
the ladder believing that eventually, the Consulate woul;d defeat the
Imperium and bring the benefits of their way of life to the poor oppressed
Imperials, before they strangled the way of life of all good and right
thinking Zhodani.

Upon reaching the top he then was let in on the Consulate plan for control
of the Imperium.  There would be no conquest.  No liberation.  The Consulate
simply planned for the cold war to go on indefinately.  All the operatives
he had seen give their lives were completely wasted.  All the efforts.
All the death pain suffering...  All for nought.

Something had to be done.....

He gathered his allies in SORAG, Naval and military intelligence and has now
defected to a faction in an Imperial client state.  This faction is willing
 to take over the government and swing to the Consulate on Baremkatalasche's
say so.

The Plan
Baremkatalasche' is building up the client state's fleet by using the defecting
Zho ships as pirates.  Stealing ships and valuables to fund the states war
effort.  When they are prepared they will begin attacking Imperial and
Zho ships to start a war.
At the moment the Consualates plans are not ready for war for another five
years.  The premature start of the fifth frontier war will result in a 
horrible Consulate Defeat.

Once this is accomplished, Baremkatalasche' will return to the Consulate
now with a powerful Consulate ally and begin preparation for the Sixth
Frontier war...  And when the Consulate knows it must strike and strike hard
there will be no more half efforts to conquer the Marches.  The Sixth 
Frontier War will destoy the Imperium utterly!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!
(evil cackling in the background)

With this going on there are lots of ways to get the players involved.

One time I had them running weapons but the money was secretly going to
fund the plot...

One time the players ran into a slave gathering expedition where the
slaves and profits were going to go to the plot...

One time I hired the players to raid an ancient site (but the artifacts
were going to the conspiritors...

One player was a scientist, I kidnapped him and put him in a work camp
similar to the village in the TV series the Prisoner...

Nobody has yet made it close to the  heart of the conspiracy (I've
moved before they quite made it there)

Any way, This is the big plot I have used in the past and probably will 
continue to use.

I liked the Zid Rachele Society plot to take over the Imperium.  The reason
I don't use the civil war imperium is I like to make it so that the
characters can do something big that will effect the big picture.  With
Lucan and friends running around with BatRons, it's tough to really do
anything unless you want to give your players a FLEET!  (NOT ME!!!)

The Sadistic thing about this plot is that the players (if they are
successful) will stop the Fifth frontier war from happening early.

But they won't stop it from happening...

On the bright side think of how many billions of man-years of peace they can
buy for all Humaniti.

Anyway, I'm curious what you guys may have used or would like to use.

So what do you say,  If your players read TML I'd like to hear your plots
anyway by personal mail if possible (I'd really appreciate it.)

Thanks,

Mr. Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2487
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1991 21:57 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Victoria

Here's a question for the historians.

There was an adventure set on victoria (Spinward Marches) in early
Journal TAS.  It was mentioned in the ANNIC NOVA adventure and in
Secret of the Ancients.

Does any one have a copy?  Weekend Warrior might but its probably $50.

I just wondered what happened.

Scotty

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2488
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 91 04:48:00 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Futile Technocracy

(as it's sometimes called)

Feudal Technocracy is a form of government unique to Traveller. My personal 
argument is that it is in fact unique to the arcology-based worlds alone, 
and that arcological development, especially on hostile worlds, goes hand in
hand with feudal technocracy. The essential concept behind the FT is that 
the world's population centers exist and operate (as self-contained units
and in relation to one another) to perform specific tasks and act along
rigidly defined lines of authority. An arcology may be responsible for a
certain planetary export, or provide some critical service to the planet,
or merely (!) serve as a seat of government. Its place in the economic and
political (and social) structure of the world is fixed; it may well have been
fixed at the dawn of the planet's history. Within each arcology, subsections
are fixed in their operations and statuses as well; this could be more or less
socially stratified in addition to being tightly organized for production 
purposes. 

The FT differs from the company world in that the latter employ people and
are contracted to take care of their dependents, and the former consider
all inhabitants to be employees, with known duties and responsibilities
from birth to death. No one questions the system or attempts to redefine
the placement or importance of an arcology; such is the stuff of civil war.
The FT differs from democracies in that there is no guarantee of individual
rights or mobility (up/down or laterally) for most citizens. Essentially
the idea is of a closed, efficient society that operates like a well-oiled
machine. (Outside ideas are discouraged as destabilizing in most cases.)

metlay

PS. A commentary on the recent sociological posting, from Inspector Voerllaen
of the Anti-Rukh Coalition Police Executive:

Doctor (if I may use the term) Tuerz is a fugitive from justice, wanted
on fifteen counts of inciting to riot, creating public disturbances, libel,
slander, and unauthorized (untranslatable) of Low Kanguerradz ideas in a
fashion detrimental to the political stability of the Coalition. We are
offering a reward of ten thousand credits for his apprehension. And remember,
pups: we weren't born, we were made. AND WE WERE MADE BETTER!

Thank you.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2489
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Miniatures
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 17:24:16 BST

"Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil> writes:
> 
> Does anyone out there use 25mm miniatures as visual aids during Traveller
> games?  What have you found that "looks" like a Traveller character?

For Traveller, I use the old 15mm figures produced by Citadel.  I also have
a few Laserburn figures, and a set of Martian Metals Zhodani (which don't
look much like "official" Zhodani - no beards or turbans :-) .  The Laserburn
ones are the most human-looking, unless you assume the Citadel ones are
wearing very heavy clothing (cloth armour, perhaps).  Using the 15mm figures
means I can use 15mm deck plans with them.

Someone else asked about vehicles.  25mm works out as about 1/72 scale, which
means you can use 1/72 scale model vehicles, with a bit of customising.  Or
you can build your own.  One vehicle I made was an Imperial grav APC.  I
used the chassis of a HO scale Chieftain tank, with the suspension area covered
over with some plastic card, along with the turret from a M-24 Chaffee tank.
I took the Chieftain's gun barrel, cut it in half, and glued one half to
the M-24's turret.  The Chieftain's gun barrel has a thick section just over
halfway along; that part became the muzzle of my APC's gun.  The result looks
quite impressive, especially as I use it with my 15mm figures.  The big idea
of this vehicle was to let the players know that if their characters got too
rowdy, there was something bigger and meaner than them, and this was it!

Some of West End's Star Wars figures would be suitable for Traveller - in
fact, the Imperial officer looks almost exactly like my 15mm officer figure
from Citadel.

And if this is anything to do with the PBEM military game, I'll use the
Darth Vader figure.  :-)

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2490
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: NVS systems
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 9:40:30 PDT

In subject 2482, Roger Opperman (rogopp@Auto-trol.COM) writes:

> > . How much does the HUD limit peripheral vision?
>
> Built into a helmet?  Lots.  Find out how many military Helos have crashed
> at night because the pilot was wearing a 'night vision system', and ran
> into a power line or something equally pathetic.  Imagine a soldier wearing
> this thing, crashing around in the brush, because he keeps tripping over
> roots he can't see very well.
>
> > . Does it connect to night-vision equipment?
>
> An NVS is maginally useful for pilots (see above), and more useful for
> a stationary spotter (like a sentry or sniper).  For a person trying to
> move around on foot, it's probably not much more than dead weight.
>
> Sorry, Mark, but you're way off base on this.  As a former
> "practicing" infantryman, I think it has been a while since you've
> used night vision gear.

True.  It's been about 15 years.  However, I think I've been doing a
fair job of following the technology in literature ("Jane's", and other
places).

>                    ... The primary factor to consider when you're a
> grunt humping in the bush at night is that you can't see ANYTHING
> anyway; take it from me -- having to turn your head to see the root in
> shades of green beats the hell out of tripping over it when you can't
> see your hand in front of your face.  Modern low-light NVS goggles are
> fine for driving and MUCH more than adequate for walking.  Admittedly,
> helo pilots do have a problem, but flying takes a HELL of a lot more
> peripheral vision than walking.

This may all be well and good for roadmarches at night, but for advance
recon in the dark, NVS isn't worth diddly.  Peripheral vision is critical
(hearing is even more importmant, but that's another story).  Every time
I ever tried this, we usually ended up on our bellies (or hands and knees
at least), feeling our way along, so as not to snap any sticks or rustle
too many leaves.  If the foliage is thick, the problem is worse and NVS
is even less effective.  BTW, you know that objects tend to be more visible
in your peripheral vision in the dark, than when directly faced.  This is
because the cones (color receptors) in the eyes are clustered near the
center of the eye, whereas the rods (B&W intensity receptors) are dispersed
around the perimeter.

>                             ...  When we get the thermal sights they
> use on AFV's down to a reasonable size, things will be even better.  I
> expect they would equip everyone with the things now except for the
> cost and battery problems.

Until NVS and thermals are reduced to the size (and weight) of wrap-around
sunglasses, I'll take a naked, night-conditioned eyeball every time.

> As for radios, most infantry squad and team NCO's carry at least a
> radio receiver now.  The military really got ripped on these things --
> we used to go out and buy the Radio Shack voice-activated radios `cause
> the issue ones were so bad.  Having everyone in the platoon on the
> same frequency but only allowing the leaders to transmit would be a
> substantial advantage.

I don't have any experience with personal military commo sets (all they
teach us USMC bottom-of-the-food-chain types are hand signals :-)), but
I can't believe the RadioShack VOX headsets are better.  I own two of them
(I used them to talk to the pit when I was Events Coordinator for the
Oregon Int'l Airshow, years ago).  They have a max. LOS range of 1/2 mile,
and less than 1/4 mile in trees.  Add to that, the fact that the little
whip antenna gets tangled in everything, and the VOX trigger requires that
you speak fairly loud before it kicks in.  It also tends to get activated
inadvertently by other loud noises (gunfire comes to mind).  It's bad
enough having to listen to the cacophony of a firefight, without hearing
it repeated and amplified in your radio headset!  ("Jonesy!!  Open fire!!"
"What?" "Open Fire!!" "WHAT?!" "OPEN FIRE!!" "Hold on while I turn off
my radio!  I can't hear you over the gunfire!!") :-)

> If they do a decent job on the design, these helmets could be a real
> "Good Thing".  Picture the Afghani with his knife being drilled at 200
> meters by the infantryman with adequate night vision.  :)

Agreed.  This is the Sentry/Sniper position I mentioned (above).  Also,
this assumes little cover/clear terrain.  Try this in the 'Nam and you'll
get your head handed to you.

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2491
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Feudal Technocra-what?
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 13:33:14 BST

d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se writes:
> 
>   Everyone knows what a charismatic dictator is. Likewise with a religious
> dictatorship. What `Balcanized' means is unfortunately self-explanatory.
> But what is a feudal technocracy?

As I understand it, it's where the community is dependant on something,
e.g. vacc suits on an airless world, water on a desert world, cars on a
world where the population is small and scattered.  The ruling elite are
the ones who control the key commodity.  Imagine Dune with the Fremen
taking complete control of the universe, due to their monopoly of melange.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2492
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 91 12:13:37 BST
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Library Data Program -- Testers Wanted

	Sorry but I've been out of tune for quite some time...
	Captured by the shareware review column in JTAS I decided to put
the sysgen stuff together in a general purpose library data package. It is
quite complete and will take sector data (like the Genie uploads) and
allow perusal, printing, system expansion and surface mapping.
	I am interested in having three people test/review it. It is for
the PC-DOS only and, at the moment, requires a VGA monitor. Anyone who
is interested please send me mail saying how you want the .EXE file sent.
	Ever wonder what Capital looks like from space? The planetary views
are pretty spectacular (if a bit fractal like).
				Jo Jaquinta
				jaymin@maths.tcd.ie

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2493
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1991 16:41 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Stuff...

Here is some more silly stuff,

Why is it, when at TL11 a model 1 computer fits on your wrist, the ships
computer is just as big as a TL8 model 1 computer?

Why do Beam lasers have such a low ROF?  If the beam is constanly on
wouldn't that constitute a HUGE ROF?  Depending on the Power of the laser


A while ago, someone said the fusion rocket is impossible:  exhaust velocity
would have to be greater than speed of light.

Actually, as v goes to c, mass increases, thaerefore you can get any momentum
you want to if your exhaust goes relativistic.

According to JTAS 8 or so, Jack-o-T meant your back ground concerning your
other skills was extremely broad.  You could perform tasks related to ones
you had mastered in a manner similar to Instruction skill

ie if you have Pilot-3 and Jack-o-T-3 you can perform as a Navigator-2
 or Engineering-2 Jack-o-T-1, you can perform at Electronic-0, mech-0, etc

The example in the Journal of TAS 8 or maybe 12? was Truck driver flying a
Air/Raft.

Does this definition still apply?  Or has it been supplanted by new def?
I used to have a Physics-3 Jack-o-T-3 character, therefore Chem-2, Bio-1,
Astronomy-2, Computer-2 etc.

That is how I use Jack-T skill, anyone else?


One last note,

A couple of months ago I  was babysitting my nephew 4 yrs old, and ran accross
a Children's cartoon where the villans are A VARGR CORSAIR BAND.

No doubt about it, admittedly they fly TL-5 - TL6 airplanes, but they act as
corsairs (animated wolves)

I started watching this cartoon (it is pretty funny some times, awful at
others) until I saw th pilot.

The Pilot is an adaptation of THE TRAVELLER ADVENTURE, yes Cargo pilot
and pirate band defector team up with megacorp to stop Corsair band from
obtaining spinal mount!  How do they do it?  By stealing a crystal!!!!!

Unfortunately the corsairs, led by the Fabulous Don Carnage (roll the R...)
are not always on the scene.  There are some bad episodes.  (What do you
want it's a kids afternoon cartoon)  And the Corsairs follow the best
traditions of inept cartoon bad guys, but Don Carnage is the stereotypical
Vargr Ship captain

	"uhh captain?... we were wondering..."
Carnage:  "Speak up my door is always open sometimes..."

	Uhhh well we don't understand your latest plan..."

Carnage:  "That is why I am in charge and you are bit players!"

Carnage"  "Oh, did I hurt your feelings?"

	Murmers of assent

Carnage:   "Good!  This is all part of my master plan...."

etc.

Anyway, This is OBVIOUSLY inspired by Traveller, and I thought I should 
tell you about it.  Please don't accuse me of watching silly kids cartoons
without good reason.

Yes it is set @ TL5 or6 but it is Trav

enough rambling

Mr. Scott

OOPS!  The cartoon is Disney's "Tail Spin"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2494
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Theory of the game
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 13:42:39 BST

d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se writes:
>   
<Summary: he saw "The Longest Day", and wonders what happens if PC's get
involved in a really big battle.>
>   
>   I normally supports the idea that there shouldn't be any difference between
> a PC and an NPC from a game-mechanical point of view, but playing out an entire
> planetary invasion looks as unappealing as rolling all the 'to hit' and 'to
> penetrate' tasks of a 200 battery batron salvoe:)

This is a job for a computer.

>   One workable solution might be to look at it from the characters standpoint:
> They see just a small part of it, and they don't know about all those bullets
> that arn't aimed in their general vicinity.
> ...
> Has anyone done something like this? Did it work?

Yes.  I had a group of PC's who were mercenaries, and who were involved in
a big war on some planet.  There were several actions going on at once; the
PC's were only involved in one.  I used "Book 4 - Mercenary" and its abstract
system to handle all the other fights, and ran the PC's battle directly.  (If
I did "The Longest Day", I'd have use Book 4 on all beaches except Omaha, and
run that one directly.  If I were in a good mood, maybe I'd let the PC's be
on a different beach.)  After the whole thing was over, there was a debriefing
in which the commanders of various units discussed their parts in the whole
thing.  One was proudly describing how his forces had shot down a Zhodani
fighter, although he didn't know what the Zhodani were doing there.  The PC
commander chose not to reveal that he had been using a captured Zho fighter
which he allowed to stray from his battle area.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2495
From: zonker%ihlpf.att.com@RELAY.CS.NET
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 08:32 CDT
Subject: 25mm Traveller Figures

Currently there are a number of good 25mm figures on the market.  The battle
tech lines also have two excellent infantry platoon packs as well as a
number of good single figures.  RAFM also has a few really excellent
figures in their line.  There is also a toy line called Expanders which
produced a excellent set of figures for 25mm (unfortunately these are hard
to come by now as they are out of production).  Many of the Warhammer 40K
figures are also usable in Traveller.  You can also look for a return
sometime in the future of the Traveller figures.

As for vehicles well you just have to make your own.  Your best bet is to
shop at various stores for acceptable source material.  Packaging material
can make some great vehicles with a little imagination and also works well
for futuristic buildings.  My wife has given up on asking why I keep
anything anymore.  Frank Chadwick is using Leggs panty hose containers for
25mm landers (he made balsa legs for them).  I am collecting deodorant
containers for my landers.  I even found one package in the trash here a
work that looks exactly like a small shuttle.  There are also a number of
the smaller G.I Joe vehicles that work fairly well for 25mm with a minimum
of conversion.  Other sources are old model kits.  The Starwars line
actually had several 25mm kits (the A wing and X wing).  Check your local
Toys R Us for what is on sale and then use your imagination.  The Expanders
vehicles are often on sale and while they are not a constant scale for the
figures they are excellent starting places for parts.

For my 25mm unit I am using the following: one each of the battletech
packs for main line infantry.  Several of the single figure battletech or
RAFM figures for commanders.  The APC will be a G.I.Joe vehicle that was an
AA rocket launcher thing with the rockets cut off an the figure seat
covered over (this gives a real nice APC with a fighting compartment on
top). Artillery is from another G.I.Joe vehicle that had this cherry picker
gun assembly (gun removed made a nice futuristic artillery piece).  G.I.Joe
vehicles were on sale for less than $3 at the local mall toy store.  Air
support will be Starwars A wings (which I overbought when I was making my
15mm Striker company about eight years ago).

 					Non Cuniculus Est,

					    Tom Harris

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2496
Subject: Re: 2453, Infantry HUDs
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 91 11:15:03 PDT
From: Carl Fago <carlf@agora.rain.COM>

In Subject 2467, markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com (Mark F. Cook) replies:
>
> In Subject 2453, richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson) writes about a new
> in-helmet HUD system for infantry.
> 
> > . Is it radiation hardened?
> 
> As a MilSpec device, it *has* to be, otherwise the DoD won't authorize
> the purchase.  As an employee of a military contractor (among other things),
> trust me on this one. :-)

I might conjecture that the limiting component regarding radiation hardening
would be the human inside.  I'm thinking more along the lines of the possible
source of the EMP vice the EMP itself.

> > . Can the signals from other people's units be jammed, foiled,
> >   confused? 
> >         (I assume the current position info is telemetry, not passive)
> 
> Not neccessarily.  If they have the equivalent of a SINS (Ships Internal
> Navigation System), they don't need telemetry.  Just spin up the gyro,
> feed it a very accurate initial position, and you're ready to go.  Subs
> use these because they can't get navsat signals when they're at operational
> depths.  (Right, Carl?)

True enough Mark.  Though I think and individual SINS is a bit much.  All the
soldier needs (and this was used in Desert Storm) is a receiver that picks
up the satellite signals that then correlate to a given position.  Any 
reasonable tech level world would have such a system.  For an invasion force
from off world, it would be prudent to deploy such a system as part of the
invasion itself!  The idea here is less moving parts and most likely less 
bulky that an individual gyro.  Plus, it would be more stable from an
individual point of view.

> > . Does it have RFI that gives away your position?
> 
> MilSpec would prevent it from having enough to do that.

I think too much credit is given MilSpecs.  The thing to always remember is
that the enemy is just a step behind you and in some cases ahead of you.  In
other words, you design something with lower leakage, then I design a detector
with increased sensitivity.

- - -- 
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - carlf@agora.rain.com | Time is nature's way to keep |
|             DELPHI - WULFGAR                | everything from happening    |
| Carl Fago   Portland, OR                    | all at once.    -anon.       |
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2497
Subject: Getting together at Origins
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 91 20:35:14 EDT
From: carson@tron.bwi.WEC.COM

   Is anybody from this list planning a get together at Origins?  I'll be there
and would like to meet some of you in the flesh.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2498
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1991 21:23 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Weak minded Low charisma police

So Inspector Voelllaen, we meet again...

	I should have expected that a low charisma whelp like yourself
would be reduced to putting your job out to bounty hunters

Ha but a mere ten thousand credits?!  For MY head?!
	Insults!

Ahh well, anyone who could be swayed by human charisma, even when he
knows it to be solomani in origin must truely be as stupid as he
seems!

I just can't see how or why you should believe these (untranslatable)
flat faced humans.  Actually, I have nothing agianst humans...

Some of my best friends are humans...

But the Solomani propaganda about the true nature of Vargrkind is of
extremely dubious origins, I honestly suggest you look at all the
scientific papers on the subject.  95% of them were written by
Solomani scientists.  And as a scientist myself, I can tell you
that the value systems and judgements of the investigators are
nearly always reflected in their work.  Look at all of human
sociology prior to old calender 1960 (solomani dating) it shows all
kinds of internal prejudices, which are now being focused outward
to the rest of the galaxy.

Particullarly against the Vargr.


Are you some sort of Solomani traitor to all Vargr?

You can't be that stupid...

Or can you?

Dr. Tuerz

PS.  I think that 1MCr is a much better bounty if I am to have one

After all, you will never have to pay it out, for a cop as dumb as
you will never catch a cold, nevermind a high charisma Vargr like ME!!!!!!!!

(he he he he)	-the translator

Scott S. Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2499
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 2489-2498 V21#17 
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 91 10:01:08 N
From: boerge@tellus.unik.no

I'm sorry, but I have misunderstood what this was all about. I thought
it had something to do with travelling, which it as far as I can see is not.
So please unsubscribe me, and I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

Kind regards !
Boerge Haga
Department of Informatics
University of Oslo
Kjeller , Norway
e-mail: boerge@tellus.unik.no
IP-address: 128.39.10.5

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2500
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Lost mail:(
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 91 12:45:08 MET DST

  If anyone of you have sent me mail between my last posting to the TML
(Feudal etc) and now, it is probably gone, so please resend it. It looks like 
the /usr/spool/mail/.. never was backed up when the system was changed:(

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"'The vector to Depot Delta Ay?!' What do you think I sound like you pup? A
 Traffic controller or something?!" - Vargr traffic controller on Corridor
 Depot 251-1118 - Translated from Gvegh-Aek

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2501
Date:     Tue, 2 Jul 91 9:49:28 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Origins

What I would suggest for those of us who are going to be at Origins is
this:

   I expect that we will all want to go to the main Traveller Q&A session,
which was going to be on Saturday afternoon according to my schedule.  I
am willing to stand up at some point and ask how many other TMLers are there,
if you all think that will work.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2502
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 91 13:04:03 EDT
From: jpb@umbio.med.miami.edu (jpb)
Subject: 25 mm Traveller Miniatures


Citadel puts out an *excellent* squad of Imperial Space Marines.
They're plastic, and come seperated into heads, arms, torsos, and legs
in various poses, along with an assortment of weapons and other props.
As I recall, it was about $20 for 18 or 24 troopers.  The marines are
wearing powered armor.  It's a little more bulky than MT battledress,
but I guess that beggars can't be choosers.

They also have a squad of infantry, but they aren't as versatile.  The
legs and torsos are one piece, so it is a lot harder to vary the poses.

I'm sorry that I'm so vague on the details, but I didn't need the
whole squads, so I split the boxes with some of the other guys in my
gaming group.

Joe

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2503
Date:     Tue, 2 Jul 91 14:36:39 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re: (2493) Stuff...

Scott Kellogg writes:
> Subject: (2493) Stuff...
> 
> Why is it, when at TL11 a model 1 computer fits on your wrist, the ships
> computer is just as big as a TL8 model 1 computer?

If we ever get back to TDR, the full range of 'tech improved' components 
will obviously have to address computers.  I tried to fit that hand computer
into a draft chart for computer size/weight by TL, and there was no way
to get it to fit in reasonably.  My temporary solution is to ignore the
line that says that it is equivalent to a Model 1.  If we do decrease
computer size/weight/cost with increasing tech level, there will be one
immediately apparent effect on the game--TL14/15 merchant ships will easily
be able to mount Comp 5,6,or 7, making piracy and so forth, especially
by lower tech ships, even more unviable than it is already.  Vargr corsairs
beware...

> Why do Beam lasers have such a low ROF?  If the beam is constanly on
> wouldn't that constitute a HUGE ROF?  Depending on the Power of the laser

Maybe so...but it also does twice the damage of a pulse laser with the
same energy consumption, which is good enough for me (at least right now.)

> A while ago, someone said the fusion rocket is impossible:  exhaust velocity
> would have to be greater than speed of light.

At the listed fuel consumption...

> Actually, as v goes to c, mass increases, thaerefore you can get any momentum
> you want to if your exhaust goes relativistic.

No.  The problem, as described to me (and this was Dow Rieder's calculation),
is that you are limited by the amount of energy contained in that quantity
of hydrogen you are fusing.  So, most of our propulsion systems are terrible
energy sinks, but we also have the fusion rocket, which not only uses a fusion
process orders of magnitude better than our power reactors, but also lets us
take power out rather than putting power in...that's the problem.


> (description of JOAT with examples deleted)

The definition of JOAT according to the rules is that it does little except
represent your 'resourcefulness' with the other skills you already have.
This is done by allowing you extra tries at performing a task without
imposing the 'determination' checks and corresponding increases in task
difficulty that would otherwise occur.  No "everything=JOAT-1" any more.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2504
From: ware@arc
Date: Tue,  2 Jul 91 09:40:00 GMT

========================================================
   I have always thought that this system might evolve
after a world undergoes some type of cataclysm (war,
plague, asteroid strike, etc) which causes a general
collapse of its dominate culture. The world in question
undergoes a general depopulation. First there is the 
diaster which causes the chaos and then there is the
"After kill" which is worse in many ways. Civilized
socities create many structures to sustain life -
food distribution, hospitals, police, etc. As these
structures are overwhelmed, the outlook for the 
population looks grim. 
   At some point if the world has not been rendered
completely uninhabitable, there is a rebound of sorts.
The afterkill creates a situation where there are 
still too many mouths to feed but not by a factor of
thousands. Civilization begins again but there are major
changes. Skills that once common were replaced by
technology and have to be re-learned. (Imagine an 
empty headed valley-girl trying to shoe a horse)
There is technology left over but those skills are
also forgotten except by a few. This "few" soon becomes
an economic force. Over several generations, it
is easy to see how they would become a major economic
force.
   As the years pass after the diaster which laid waste 
to the world, the lack of education and social structure
causes the people to revert back to a more primative
level. Those who have technology and the skills to use
it evolve into a "priesthood". I use the word priesthood
with care: I don't mean to imply that a cult will grow
around technology users but it could very well be the case.
(see below)
   The type of technology the ruling elite use will have
a major impact on the society. A clan of engineers sitting
on a fusion reactor would be very differant from the 
decendants of doctors keeping a hospital going. In both
cases they are in a unique economic position offering
a service that can't be had elsewhere. These groups will
likely be very rich (relatively speaking- remember they
are the decendants of a collapsed society) and willing
to fight against challenges to their position.
   Another angle of particular importance to explore is
what the common people think about the collapsed culture.
They may revere the "Old Ones" as Gods or revile them
for bringing down the wrath of an angry God". In both cases
it will have a major bearing on how the technology using
and non-technology using cultures interact. In such settings
it is not unthinkable that many religious sects may pop up.
There may well be distrust and open warfare between the
primatives and technology users (witches). This is 
fertile ground for the Game Master and can lead to some 
very interesting situations. There are many books and
films based on similar themes. Several episodes of Dr. Who
come to mind.
========================================================
"The more complicated the plumbing,
 the easier it is to stop up the drain." -Mr. Scott
========================================================
James R. Ware      SysAdmin  MS Dept. of Archives
P.O.Box 2424                 day (601)359-6888
Jackson, MS 39225            fax (601)359-6905
========================================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2505
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 91 07:47:45 MST
From: wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson)
Subject: TDR files.

Where are the most up to date TDR files located for FTP?


- - -- 
Let sleeping dragons lie........                    | The RoleMancer 
- - --------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Wilson (wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu | ucc2wew@nauvm | wilson@nauvax)
Northern AZ Univ  Flagstaff, AZ 86011

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Jul  7 21:00:11 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #205: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2506  03-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Planetary Invasions << Inspired by Bertil's r
2507  03-Jul-91 Hugh Schoenemann  MT software - info please ! << Good Folks, I 
2508  03-Jul-91 George William He Re: Planetary Invasions << Interesting... a f
2509  03-Jul-91 Richard Johnson   Re: Rob's "Slag Heap" Support Vehicle << Well
2510  03-Jul-91 Richard Johnson   TML not Travelling? << :Date: Tue, 02 Jul 91 
2511  04-Jul-91 teets@frith.egr.m Technology at different tech levels << An int
2512  04-Jul-91 teets@frith.egr.m Follow up on Tech << Oops, looking over my pr
2513  04-Jul-91 Richard Johnson   Re: MT Computer Game << :From: Hugh Schoenema
2514  04-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Origins, Day 1 << I hope you will all pardon 
2515  05-Jul-91 MacGyver          Star Viking, Hard time, etc << Star Viking is
2516  05-Jul-91 Netherwood P J    testing sysgen << Hi Jo I would love to test/
2517  06-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au No! Not more Vehicles! << Hi folks, The plane
2518  06-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au OOOPS! Meson sub got away... << 
2519  06-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au OOPS! #2 << I Seem to be experiencing operati
2520  06-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Cargo transport << 
2521  06-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Cargo Transport oops << Sorry more mail troub

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2506
Date:     Wed, 3 Jul 91 14:59:40 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Planetary Invasions

Inspired by Bertil's recent post on how to do D-Day, the Gulf War, and
some previous thinking of my own, I present the following for discussion:


                  LARGE SCALE WARFARE IN THE IMPERIUM

     In  light of the recent reconquest of Kuwait, I would like to  take 
the  opportunity to consider warfare in the far future depicted by  Tra-
veller.   I  am  posting this to the list in hope of  stirring  up  some 
debate  on the topic.  Who knows?  If we come up with a consensus,  per-
haps we can submit to the Journal or Challenge...

     From my point of view, the most interesting aspects of the Gulf War 
as  applied to Traveller were the incredible pace of operations and  the 
potential  increase in real-time tactical intelligence due to  sophisti-
cated sensor systems.  As Traveller depicts the development of technolo-
gy, it seems that these trends can only continue.

     Let's  look  first at the 'total war' scenario as it applies  to  a 
planetary  assault against a stellar technology planet.  Planets of  TL8 
and below, and low population planets are automatically at the mercy  of 
any  attacking force.  Why would you assault a planet at all?   For  the 
same  reason  that we still have ground forces in  the  nuclear  age...a 
demand to surrender or be bombarded into oblivion is not always believa-
ble.   A planetary assault would only occur during deliberate  offensive 
operations  aimed  at  capturing territory.  During a  raid  into  enemy 
territory,  with  no short-term intent to govern the population  of  the 
target  planet, bombardment _would_ be preferred. Under limited  circum-
stances  a ground raid to capture specific removable  objectives  (data, 
personnel,  or prototypes) might be considered, but it would have to  be 
small  scale  to permit a stealthy approach. A stealthy approach  for  a 
large raid is not generally possible, though the possibility would exist 
for  regiments or divisions to be deployed by black globe  using  dread-
noughts.

     An  attacking fleet jumps into a system as a fairly  compact  unit.  
The  local  forces will learn of its existence in hours at  the  latest, 
depending  on  the location of the appearance.  If they  are  scattered, 
they will attempt to withdraw, attempt to combine, or engage  piecemeal, 
depending on their commander's assessment of the relative strengths.  In 
any  case, a superior attacker can proceed to the main  world,  possibly 
refueling  on the way if the configuration of the planets and the  enemy 
fleets  permits,  possibly  reduced by combat if the  enemy  elected  to 
engage.   In  any  case, the mainworld will be  warned.   The  planetary 
defenses  will stand ready, deep meson gun sites prepared to fire,  grav 
craft dispersed and moving or hidden in the oceans or deep bunkers as  a 
reserve.  As the fleet approaches the planet, all craft in orbit will be 
detected  and  identified.  Deception will be difficult  or  impossible. 
Cheap  drones emitting the electromagnetic signature of important  craft 
may  be deployed to confuse the attacker's perception of where the  tar-
gets  are,  but there will be no way to hide where  the  defenders  _are 
not_.   Drones are a two edged sword, for the attacker will use as  well 
in the next phase.  Prepared for the planetary meson guns, the attacking 
fleet does not hazard the largest ships against them.  Instead they rely 
on  saturating the defenses with numerous smaller craft  and/or  drones.  
Some  will  be lost to meson gun fire, some to ground based  lasers  and 
missiles.   Many will get through, and most of them will carry  substan-
tial  sensor suites, jam-proof maser communicators, and enough  tactical 
computing  power  to pass the reconnaissance information to  the  combat 
control  center(s).  If the defender's deception plan has been  success-
ful,  defending grav craft will outnumber and defeat the attackers.   If 
not,  the skies above the planet will soon belong to the  attacker.   In 
either  case, this phase of operations will be comparatively  short  and 
extremely rapid.  Logistics will not be a consideration when almost  all 
craft  are  armed with energy weapons requiring no ammunition  and  have 
fuel  for days or weeks of continuous operation.  The entire  atmosphere 
and  close  orbit space will be an enormous swirling dogfight  as  craft 
engage at hundred of kilometers at speeds of thousands of kilometers per 
hour.  Infantry, even when equipped with battledress and grav belts will 
have  no  place in this phase of operations.  Their  individual  weapons 
will not affect grav combat vehicles, there will be no pressing need  to 
assault immobile positions until the 'dogfight' is over, and they  would 
be vulnerable while riding in their carriers for no gain.  It is  possi-
ble  that infantry carriers might deploy with the assault wave  to  take 
advantage of the saturation, and then ground and spread out to await the 
next  phase.  Ground mobile forces will also have little place  in  this 
combat except to fire at anyone coming within their immobile reach.   If 
the defending grav forces are defeated, their ground forces will rapidly 
be destroyed as the highly mobile attackers can concentrate on them  one 
at  a  time.   The attackers will make a special effort  to  target  any 
immobile  communication  and sensor facilities that  are  detected...al-
though a deep meson gun site may have multiple sensor and  communication 
relay  stations, without the use of meson communicators the  final  link 
must  be immobile, though perhaps concealed and well  hardened.   (Meson 
communicators  will allow the deep site spotters to be mobile and  main-
tain communications through the ground without the use of surface  level 
relay points.) (A deep meson gun site should be buried below the maximum 
resolution  level of the enemy's densitometers, which is  one  kilometer 
for  a TL15 invader.  The existence of TL16 sensor-building  planets  at 
the  Imperial Core just prior to the outbreak of the Civil War has  pre-
sumably rendered sites buried to the 1km minimum obsolete.) Both combat-
ants  will attempt to attack as many of the enemy's most capable  sensor 
platforms  as  possible, but the size and power TL14+ sensors  makes  it 
easy  enough for every grav tank to be its own Gulf War  J-STARS  system 
equivalent.   If  the defender has concealed assets at the  end  of  the 
'dogfight' phase, they may now be cut off from central command, and will 
probably  lack the opportunity for large scale surprise.   Trading  them 
one  for  one for attacker forces would probably gain  nothing  at  this 
point;  better  on a strategic level, though not  necessarily  for  this 
planet,  to leave them concealed to strike when the attacker  has  with-
drawn most of his assault forces for the next operation, or to at  least 
force the attacker to devote resources to tracking them down one by one.

     After the 'dogfight' comes the 'mop-up'.  Immobile defending  posi-
tions are assaulted as soon as overwhelming force can be brought to bear 
against  them.  Limited force, in the form of infantry with very  selec-
tive  direct fire support, might be used against targets which  the  at-
tacker  desired to capture intact, or where collateral damage is  to  be 
avoided,  such as cities--it has already been mentioned that an  assault 
would only be ordered with an intent to capture, so it is to be  assumed 
that  these  target would exist.  With his mobile  forces  destroyed  or 
otherwise  neutralized, each of these targets/force concentrations  will 
be isolated.  Surrender and sabotage of valuable targets to deny them to 
the attackers might be common in this phase, since the conclusion is not 
certain.   The defenders will lose unless assisted by an outside  force.  
If  such an outside force exists, they may hold out for a  while.   This 
phase  will certainly be longer than the 'dogfight', as it  may  involve 
house  to  house searches of a city until the defenders  give  up.   Any 
remaining  defender  heavy weapons will be at a severe  disadvantage  in 
this phase, since the attackers sensor superiority will be so pronounced 
that  they  will  probably not survive for multiple  shots  after  being 
revealed,  at least as long as the attacker has thoroughly  covered  the 
area with his own heavy weapons.

     After  the final formal surrender will be the  'occupation'  phase. 
Guerrilla  resistance  will be made difficult by the  sensor  imbalance.  
The existence of the advanced sensors postulated in the game would  seem 
to make counterinsurgency trivial for a high-tech attacker.  A guerrilla 
attack  occurs,  using  weapons hidden and not  discovered  in  searches 
during the 'mop-up' phase.  The attacker is immediately alerted,  either 
by  jam-proof communications or by the sudden appearance of  jamming  on 
the  passive sensor network.  A grav mounted rapid response  force  sur-
round the area, sets up a sensor interdiction perimeter, and attacks any 
immediately  detectable  enemy forces.  Civilian movement  will  be  re-
stricted, brutally if necessary (Warning! All grav craft over the  East-
ern  Continent ground within 5 seconds or you _will be destroyed_).   No 
guerrillas  will  be able to filter through the  sensor  perimeter  with 
their  weapons, although they may abandon them and escape  as  civilians 
unarmed.  There will be limits to their weapons supplies, and enough  of 
this  will  render  them harmless.  If a group does attack  or  jam  the 
sensors  in  the  course of an escape, another response  team  could  be 
called.  Enough guerrillas could saturate the response teams, but  over-
all I think that guerrilla losses would be prohibitive.

   Ruling a hostile population, and one perhaps made more hostile by the 
measures necessary to suppress any large scale guerrilla activity  would 
be  a  difficult (if not formidable task), but it has  been  managed  on 
Earth  with a far less overwhelming superiority on the part of  the  at-
tackers.

   As I said at the beginning, I'm trying to extrapolate what the situa-
tion would look like with fast, highly capable craft which can attack at 
very  long distances by current standards.  If there is any interest  in 
this, we can discuss what the 'view from the cockpit' might look like at 
different levels on each side of this sort of operation, as well as what 
it would look like to non-combatants on the ground.




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2507
From: Hugh Schoenemann <hugh@pyra.co.uk>
Subject: MT software - info please !
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 91 19:02:12 GMT-0:00


Good Folks,

I was in my local Games Shop here in the UK on Saturday  and
noticed  a  boxed  computer game, MegaTraveller, The Zhodani
Conspiracy (or something like that) - sitting on the  shelf.
Looking  at  the  box art and screen images on the back, the
game would, at first sight, appear to be worth  buying,  but
this  *could*  be the usual marketing hype you normally find
with computer software.

My question therefore is quite simple  :  has  anyone  tried
this software out ? If so, what are your thoughts, opinions,
omments ? Is it worth parting with a few million credits to
buy it ?

Apologies to the TML  if  this  question  has  already  been
answered.

All the best everybody.

Hugh.
- - -----

|Hugh P. Schoenemann    |"Hey sonny - haven't you  got an |*  * ***   ***|
|Pyramid Technology Ltd.| FGMP  15 to play with or what ?"|*  * *  * **  |
|..ukc!pyrltd!hugh      |                                 |**** ***    **|
|Tel : +44 252 373035   | ***** FIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ! ***** |*  * *    *** |


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2508
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 91 21:58:52 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: Planetary Invasions


 
Interesting... a few comments.
 
The Desert Storm analogy can be pushed even further... remember that the sortie
rate over Iraq was only about 2000/day, and a single Scout/Courier with a pulse
laser can hit more than that number of targets daily.  A small invasion force
relative to the planet's size (population) will have the same effect as DS's
attacks; over a period of weeks, total descruction of transportation, air/
space assets, hardened bunkers etc.  A large one will do it in days.  A really
intense attack can do it in a matter of hours.
        I can see an attacking force holding at altitude 10-50,000 km and
establishing a free-fire zone against planetary defense craft and ground
facilities, while doing realtime recon/intel/targeting which would feed into
a ground targets list which was hitting things within minutes of their being
identified as targets.  As soon as planetary defences are out, the task force
would approach closer and drop troops and concentrate on battlefield support...
imagine a intel/targeting system good enough that a trooper with a rifle can
be identified and targeted from orbit... it would be possible and practical
on these scales...
 
- - -george
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2509
Subject: Re: Rob's "Slag Heap" Support Vehicle
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 91 19:34:24 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

Well, you invited comments.  :=)
(This is about the support vehicle you introduced
 about a week and a half ago.)

"Phalanx" seems like a weak euphamism.  I see a single support
vehicle of this kind cutting a swath that pales Sherman's
march to the sea.  And leaves it radioactive, too.  Let's
rename this the "Basalt-making Battalion Batterer" or something
like that.

Actually, I find your prediction of technological march to
horrifyingly true to want to deal with a vehicle like this.
OK, Mark, Bertil, Marc--how would the poor slag er "ground"
pounder take one of these out?

Richard


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2510
Subject: TML not Travelling?
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 91 20:16:38 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>


:Date: Tue, 02 Jul 91 10:01:08 N
:
:I'm sorry, but I have misunderstood what this was all about. I thought
:it had something to do with travelling, which it as far as I can see is not.
:So please unsubscribe me, and I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

Boy, I'll bet those discussions of "phalanx" fusion platforms, laser
rifle ROF, and night vision goggles really put a damper on his 
vacation plans!  :=)

Not a good week to visit Salvic Nuclear power plants.
- - --
Richard

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2511
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 91 14:38:13 -0400
From: teets@frith.egr.msu.edu
Subject: Technology at different tech levels


	An interesting thought occured to me yesterday when I was working with
a friend on a car of his.  He had put a new engine in it and was putting in a
carberator (sp?) for racing when I asked him why he didn't use fuel injection.
He stated that although fuel injection was all fine and dandy it was a pain to
fix and in the last couple of years, carbs have greatly increased in performance
and durability.  Now, most of you ask what this has to do with traveller, let me
give you two examples below:

	Sharek popped open the engine compartment of his new air/raft.
	It was a beauty, brand new technology on his TL15 world it used
	the latest in technology.  Its power output was much higher than
	the old ones and it grav system just new of the drawing boards.
	HOWEVER the warning light had just come on and it had coasted to
	a landing in the sandy desert.  He looked at the power plant, a
	jumbled mass of control circuits and tubing, he couldn't even 
	begin to fanthom it without his gravitics kit.  The instruction
	manual, claiming that the engine was too complicated unless 
	specially trained, only said "call nearest service center".
	Sharek looked up at the approaching storm, "Uh-oh."

Now a different example.

	Sharek popped open the engine hatch of his "Safarimaster" air/raft
	although not the most sophisticated model, it had stood up to the
	test of time using mostly components invented around TL12, 150 years
	ago on his planet.  He stared down at the power plant, it was large
	and flat and was a mass of square modules each coded in one of ten
	colors.  Because of refinements to the equipment over the years the
	control chips had all been standardized into ten sorts and coded, 
	plus many of the systems were redundant.  A small square turned blace
	in the top right corner if it had burned out.  Sharek scanned the
	power plant for a moment before finding the bad module.  A red module
	had burnt out, he quickly reached over and took one from the "spares"
	holder mounted on the side of the compartment.  Pushing the reset 
	button, he heard the powerplant come to life and shut the hatch.  All
	green light appeared on the display panel.  He quickly lifted the 
	air/raft off the ground and sped towards home.  He chuckled as he
	looked over his shoulder, the storm would be 1000km behind him by 
	the time he reached home.`

	As you can see from the examples, old technology at a higher tech level
might be desirable.  Why that old laser pistol, first available at TL8 but build
at TL15, might be usable right after it is wiped off after being dragged from
that hole after 10 years.
	In game terms this would mean there would be 2 tech levels for every
item, ship, etc., one for when it became available and one for when it was built.  Although this (slightly) increases paperwork and records, it also is very
handy as a game tool.  Bob's brand new laser rifle might shoot for more damage,
but probably John's older, more proven, one will probably shoot longer with less
maintenance.  
	For planyer this means:  A) that they will recieve a plus on the die for
the difference between the techs.  B)  They will be able to smuggle in goods to
TL restricted worlds without it being so noticeable.  "Commander Vrog, the 
rebels seem to have the same rifle we do, but they never seem to require 
maintenance and can constantly be abused without breaking".
	What is everyone elses opinion on this?  

					Matt Teets

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2512
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 91 14:45:15 -0400
From: teets@frith.egr.msu.edu
Subject: Follow up on Tech

        Oops, looking over my previous post I mentioned a plus on the die for
the difference between techs.  This is supposed to be for maintenance and
repair rolls.  Sorry about that.

					Matt Teets

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2513
Subject: Re: MT Computer Game
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 91 11:48:19 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

:From: Hugh Schoenemann <hugh@pyra.co.uk>
:
:I was in my local Games Shop here in the UK on Saturday  and
:noticed  a  boxed  computer game, MegaTraveller, The Zhodani
:Conspiracy (or something like that) - sitting on the  shelf.
...
:My question therefore is quite simple  :  has  anyone  tried
:this software out ? If so, what are your thoughts, opinions,
:omments ? Is it worth parting with a few million credits to
:buy it ?

Wellll... (sorry this is so long)
I got it for the Amiga about a week or so ago.  It plays well.
It's fun.  I could get addicted; then you'd NEVER see a PBEM 
turn again.  :=)  Actually, here's a more serious review:

Hosts: I *know* this came out for PC's and compatibles first,
       but I haven't seen it played on one.  The version I
       have is for an Amiga.   While it handles other processes
       running concurrently, it doesn't use multi-tasking
       advantageously.  No surprise.  The screens are mainly
       overhead view things.  Look like about EGA quality for
       smoother movements.  Sounds are fairly limited.  Again
       no surprise, but I'd rather have a fun game with
       limits on the bells and whistles.

       You might want to find out a little more from someone 
       who has a copy running on the same host you're planning
       to buy for.  If it's PC, I understand a second adventure
       is out already, too.

Docs:  The manual goes into great lengths explaining MT, the
       various races, the various craft, weapons, skills etc.
       and leaves out lots of information that would be really
       useful to someone who knows MT and wants to know how 
       they implemented it on the machine.

       For example, here is the description of the skill "Tactics":

          The character is experienced in small unit tactics.
       
       What does this mean?  We know, because we're MT'ers, that
       in the game, tactics modifies the party's reaction time
       for surprise value, and the skill level is a die modifier
       on a difficult task.  It would be nice if the game writers
       would tell us what things *mean* for play.

Characters:  You get a party of five characters (or less).  With
       them you must fight, learn, fly, and all the other associated
       MT activities.  Character generation is pretty good.  At
       least you have the option of infanticide before trying
       to enlist that 35453B brat.  :=)  Make sure *all* your
       characters have a vacc suit and gun of some kind before
       you start the game, though.

Play:  It took me about four days to learn the basic interface.
       :=(  It is one of the most frustrating things I've
       ever tried with a computer.  Better docs would have
       helped.  Now that I know it, it sorta makes sense.  The
       Ami version has the "old" interface with the real-time
       combat (which I don't find that bad) and an in-system
       flight thing that is heinous.  Gravity don't work that
       way folks!  The planets you want to get to are all 
       ringed by unbelievably dense asteroids capable of 
       sending your ship into the void, at maximum opposing
       thrust.  I heard the PC version is better.

Overall: I really like it, despite it's shortcomings.  It's
       about time we had a computer game that at least 
       tried to get the flavor of MT.  With "The Zhodani
       Conspiracy" we might not have the full flavor yet,
       but we certainly have some nice aromas from the kitchen.

Richard Johnson

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2514
Date:     Thu, 4 Jul 91 21:06:49 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Origins, Day 1

I hope you will all pardon me if this message gets a little messy--I'm home
with the C-64 after having been downtown at Origins most of the day.  The con 
looks pretty disorganized at the moment, and lots of grumbling was heard (which
is why they call us 'grognards' (-8 ).

I was pleased to see that there was a Traveller Q&A today (though less so 
when I got there at 10 and it was at 3--not much to do in between).

I'll post more on this later next week, but I should mention that there is
another on Saturday, and I expect I'll have the chance to read my mail Saturday
morning before I go.  If you have any <silly> questions you want relayed,
send them to me by private email to avoid cluttering the list.

Panel members were Tom Peters, Charles E. Gannon (introduced as Challenge
MT coordinator), and Marc Miller.  They mentioned that GDW is pledged to 
increase MT support in the near future (a little infighting there?), and the
projected products include an Equipment Guide, something called Hard Times,
which will discuss the technicalities of the decay, Diaspora (modern equivalent
of an old style sector sourcbook), and
Star Viking.  This last is apparently
almost intended to be a separate game,
and its theme should be clear to any
reader of Piper's _Space Viking_.

Miller comments noted:  DGP and MTJ are gospel, Challenge is 'sort of
unofficial unless collected elsewhere'.  Piper was indeed a primary inspiration
for all of Traveller---so read anything of his you can find for the 'authentic
look and feel' of Traveller.  Aslan
can sublimate their desire for land pretty well, so airless rockballs 
aren't safe. (-8  The shattering is
permanent for the forseeable future.
Traveller has definitely evolved in concept--as I suspected the Kinunir
was a battle cruiser (1250t) because
that was a reasonable name for something that size when 5000t was maximum.

That's all for now...

Rob Dean

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2515
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Star Viking, Hard time, etc
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 91 8:19:24 EDT

Star Viking is a miniature war game. From what I heard, the game can either
be played by itself, or be used to resolve large scale combat for MT.
The game also introduce a new fraction called "Star Viking", basically
it's space pirates.

Hard Times on the other hand, I'm not quite sure what it's about. I do know
that it's an adventure book. I think it has lots of little adventures in
it to show people what the life is like in the rebellion era, though don't
quote me on that. :)


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2516
From: Netherwood P J <cs_s424@ux.kingston.ac.uk>
Subject: testing sysgen
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 91 19:19:32 BST


Hi Jo
 
I would love to test/review this software, sounds great. For transmission
I suggest you compress, convert to ascii, split then send.
 
Compress - you can use the unix compression utils called compress or use
a PC based one such as lharc, pkzip etc.
 
ascii - convert to ascii for transmission over email. Use Unix uuencode
or PC based boo utility.
 
split - max size of files over email is usually 100000 bytes so use unix
split utility to split if file is over this size.
 
Cheers
 
Paul.
- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Netherwood                      reply to :  P.J.Netherwood@uk.ac.kingston
 
School of Computer Science and Electronic Systems,
Kingston Polytechnic, Penrhyn Road, Kingston-upon-Thames, Surrey KT1 2EE, UK.
- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2517
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1991 15:13 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: No! Not more Vehicles!


Hi folks,

The planetary invasion set me off on something I've been thinking about for a while...

Herbert Dean Class Meson Submarine

CraftID:	Meson Submarine, Type SSM, MCr 9930.461
Hull:		(9000/22500) Disp=10000, Config=1AF Armor=57G
		Load=135000, Unload=132358, OpDepth=2940m, Crush=4410m
		Length=352m
Power:		(External link to submarine Geothermal Station)
		(1899/2531) Aux Fusion=341665MW, Dur=1hr/infinite
		(it's under water!)
		(434/578) MesonBoiler=13000MW, Powered by spine mt of
		another sub or fixed station)
Loco:		(270/360) Agrav Manuver=1G, Air top=1200, Cruise=900
		NOE=190,  Watertop=200, Cruise=20 (so not to disrupt sonar)
Comm:		Radio=system*3
		Maser=System*3, RadioJam=System*1, Meson=System*3:Planet*20
Sensors:	P-EMS=Interstell*2, A-EMS=FarOrb*2, EMS-Jam=FarOrb*1
		Neutrino=10Kw*5, Densiometer=1Km*5, PassSonar=Cont*5
		Act/PassSonar=Reg*5
		ActObjScn=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout
		PasObjScn=Rout, PasObjScn=Rout
		PasEnScn=Simp,  PasEnPin=Rout
		PasAudScn=Simp, PasAudPin=Rout
		ActAudScn=Rout, ActAudPin=Rout
Off:		MesonGun=T
		Batt=    1
		Bear=    1
Def:		DefDM=8, EMMask, Anechroic Hull coating, Noisemaker=20tubes
		Nuc Damp-9, MesonScn-9
Control:	Comp=mod9fib*3 LrgHoloDisp=5, HoloHUD=26, HoloLink=26
		Electronic Circuit Protection
Accom:		Crew=107(cmd=14, Bridge=12, Engineer=14, Gunner=52,
		Maintain=9, Steward=3, MEdiic=3) Env=Basic Env, Basic LS,
		Extend LS, Low berths=52
Other:		Fuel=174Kl, Noisemakers=100, Fuel Scoops, Cargo=2630Kl
		EmLevel=Mod when firing, None when inactive,
		Acoustic Sig=Strong???? (Fusion reactor?) ObjSize=Large

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2518
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1991 15:14 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: OOOPS! Meson sub got away...


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2519
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1991 15:49 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: OOPS! #2

I Seem to be experiencing operating difficulties please st...

I meant to say more about my sub but the Ducvax is having troubles(Me too)

Patton:  Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man

Translation:  A fixed deep meson site is a dead meson site.

If you want to have your meson gun survive the first few minutes, you need
it to be mobile.  Any good intelligence team would recon the location of a
defence site before any invasion started.  It would be the first target put
into the invaders computers long before they even jumped in system.

Solution:  Mobile meson guns.  As a sub with 2km of water over head,
densiometers are going to have a tough time.  Its the same over all density
as the water around it.  It's on the sea bottom connected to a geothermal
plant in the sea bed.  No neutrino emmisions.  If they want to move it,
use the meson boiler powered by another sub and move them in leap frog
fashion.  The crew could have a choice of several geothermal stations
to get power from thus an attacking fleet won't have a clue where they are.
You have Passive sensor modules disguised as civilian g-carriers all over
the planet these transmit data via meson communicators (No body knows about
these...) I will post one in the near future.

OK suppose a starship enters the water...  I have not seen ONE ship designed
with a sonar set.  NOT ONE.   (Hint)

A sub, especially at low tech makes the best SDB (See my designs of the
Soviet missile sub Typhoon class @TL8, and the US missile sub Lafayette)
just fix 'em up with surface to orbi missiles instead of ICBMS and that's
what you have to fight with.(Lafayette=TL7)


The Herbert Dean class sub is operational in the seas of Regina and saw action
in the 5F War, the Zhodani assault used psionics to aid in the location of the
sites and sank one ship.   Since then the ships are being equipped with psi
shielding in the hulls as part of the PDI (Psionic Defence Initiative)

The subs spend most of their time on patrol resulting in somewhat lower
morale than the rest of the SDB contingients.  Thus they are equipped with
sufficient low berths to allow for crew members to spend less time being
bored without so much as a window to look out of, than they would normally
have to on what is normally a 1 year mission.

	(US sub crews spend 6 months (?) and in comparison to other SDB crews
who can afford to land for fuel and supplies every month life on the Herbert
Dean is pretty SLOW.  No interceptions to be made, little or no movement
(Every time they change location they are subject to tracking) Just sit on
the bottom and wait for the invasion.  Even Deep meson site crews go home
at night (course they'll be on the moon first when it hits the fan...)

I had trouble figuring the speed out, but she's a purpose designed sub (even
if it doesn't have ballest tanks) so the depth given is for subs not ships
Acoustic Sig=Strong? With a very quiet fusion reactor, grav drives and
anechroic coating?  What do you say George?  I'm not so sure
I would say that an MHD drive would lower acoustic sig and your notes don't
say anything about that.  Also I know that speed of a craft destroys sonar
readings but I have no idea how much or at what speed.  (please Help)

All of you who may be concerned about me desigining mountains of stuff..
relax I got too much work to do (but it's a holiday so I got a little time)

Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2520
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1991 15:50 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Cargo transport


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2521
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1991 16:23 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Cargo Transport oops

Sorry more mail trouble

Here is a vehicle I was requested to turn out (yes I take requests)

Deuterium Cargo/Fuel Transporter

	The Deuterium class transport is a common sight around starports
where pilots are nervous about some nut in a g-carrier ramming into the
side of their ships.  
(I sure wouldn't want a helicopter refueling aircraft at the airport
I fly at!!!!)

CraftID:	Deuterium class Transport TL14 Cr 175,969
Hull:		(14/34) Disp=15, Config=4USL, ARmor=3G, Unload=32.6,
		Load=195.6 //as fuel transport Load=46.8
Power:		(1/2) Fusion=4.9MW, Dur=6/18
Loco:		(3/6) Wheels=18, PW=26, RoadCargo=160kph, Off=48kph
		as fuel transport Road=239 off=72 (if you're insane)
Comm:		Radio=Reg
Sensors:	AW-RADAR=Dist*2 (forward and rear) Visual+Act IR*2,
		Headlights*4  ActObjScan=Form, ActObjPin=Form
Off/Def:	HPts=1
Control:	Computer=0, Dynlink*1, ElectonicLink*1, Slave Unit
Accom:		Crew=2 (Driver, Cargo handler) Seats Aedequate*2
		Env=Basic Env, Basic LS
Other::		Cargo=162, Fuel=1.15Kl Heavy Robot ARm*2, ObjSize=Avg
		EMlevel=Mod

At TL13 weight is +1 ton and reduce speeds by 10kph,

The Deuterium class transport can handle 12 disp tons of cargo easily, and is
often the loading vehicle for starships handling standard cargo bins.  It is
most often seen around starports or making deliveries in or around cities
It is cheaper than a grav vehicle of equal capacity and for short to medium
distances it is more economical and just as fast.  (Imagine flying a grav
vehicle through crouded airspace say like...Washington where there are 3
MAJOR airports all within a stones throw?)  When a delivery takes 2 hours
for large bins of cargo, who cares if it could be done a little faster?
in commercial terms the time saved is not worth the extra effort or cost
	You want it faster?  Then use a special grav transport and double
the freight costs.
	Most of the componants of the transport are TL13 only the hull is
TL14 and many componants are less than TL13.
	For safety's sake (lots a lawyers on high tech worlds) the vehicle is
equipped with 2 radar systems for anti collision warnings, Plus active IR
vision relays in the rear of the truck for watching those tight turns and
lane changes.  It has a Slave unit so that the vehicle could be operated by a traffic control net should that be required by local law.  Often times a robot
system will be used (theres one in 101 robots) in place of a sentient driver
to insure safe consistant driving.
	It has environment control for the cargo bay enabling it to be used
for perishable cargoes and as a ground fuel truck.
(Watch the speeds boys you're carrying 12 tons of liquid hydrogen...)  The
speeds listed are Possible speeds (I wouldn't want to drive offroad at
72kph with a load of liquid HYDROGEN!!!!

Scott S. Kellogg

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Jul  7 21:00:20 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #206: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2522  06-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Planetary Invasions << > LARGE SCALE WARF
2523  06-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Planetary invasion tactics << Ok, Ok, What is
2524  07-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha The Battle of Naasakiira << Place: Naasakiira
2525  02-Jul-91 spg@alpha.sunques Re: TML nightly: Msgs 2499-2504 V21#18 << #> 
2526  06-Jul-91 Rob Miracle       Alternate Character Generation (Long) << Some
2527  06-Jul-91 tnc!m0068@uunet.U Nanotechnology in MT << Here's a general ques

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2522
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Re: Planetary Invasions
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 91 23:37:47 MET DST

>                   LARGE SCALE WARFARE IN THE IMPERIUM
> 
>      From my point of view, the most interesting aspects of the Gulf War 
> as  applied to Traveller were the incredible pace of operations and  the 
> potential  increase in real-time tactical intelligence due to  sophisti-
> cated sensor systems.  As Traveller depicts the development of technolo-
> gy, it seems that these trends can only continue.

  Even though I know that I'm going awfully close to the edge of the TML charter
I have to comment that the Gulf war wasn't a normal war in any way. There were a
long undisturbed buildup, a long undisturbed air campaign and the climate and
geography were ideal for high-tech warfare. 

>      An  attacking fleet jumps into a system as a fairly  compact  unit.  

  Not nessesarily. Even during the best of circumstances, the fleet will be
spread out quite thinly in both time and space.
  1. Time: A normal jump takes 124+2D*6 h. The fleet will arrive gradually 
           during several days. If the transports arrive before the escort,
	   this could spell a major fiasco.
  2. Space: No matter how smart the navigators and how skilfull the engineers,
	    one ship in thirtysix will still make a misjump that can add to
	    the error in time or add a new error in space.

  Taken as a whole, the safest way would be for the fleet to aim at some quiet
corner of the target system and spend a few days reorganizing itself before
proceeding inwards.

  (Coming to think about it, this error might be the big reason behind the
success of the carrier batrons, because they are guaranteed to arrive as a unit,
contrary to a group of battleships. Something to think about for an as anti-
carrier pro-battleship type as myself:)

> The  local  forces will learn of its existence in hours at  the  latest, 

  A system has no outer limit except the limit imposed by fuel. The range of
sensors is the big unknown in this equation, because they seem to have a far
shorter range when used in combat compared to what's in the design specs.
  I suspect that if someone tried to unload a sensor with an advertised range
of Interstellar that can only discover ships at around 400000km on the IN, the
Moat would be up in arms.

> depending  on  the location of the appearance.  If they  are  scattered, 
> they will attempt to withdraw, attempt to combine, or engage  piecemeal, 
> depending on their commander's assessment of the relative strengths.  In 
> any  case, a superior attacker can proceed to the main  world,

  Remember that the attacking force have to bring *everything* along. Every
kiloliter of payload that has to be there costs 200kCr(*) (Assuming J3 1G 
unarmed 20kt transports) while the defender can have pre-positioned supplies
all over the system (As can the attacker, strictly speaking, but he might have 
a hard time keeping them secret).

  (I'm well aware that the attacker probably didn't buy all the transport
capacity the day before they set out to conquer their neighbours, But the same
thing applies to the defender. I'm also aware that the attacker could bring in 
supplies gradually, but a supplyline stretching possibley several jumps is 
extremely vulnurable and keeping it safe would tie up large tonnages. The
attacker will *at least* have to bring enough for 3 weeks of combat, since that
is when the first transport would arrive (Sending transports to a system 
without knowing if the invasion fleet had to beat feet out of there or if they
gained a foothold is not recommended. One risks giving a lot of supply ships 
away to the enemy. I count with one week of fighting, one week to the the
message home and one week for the supply ships to jump back to the target
system.)

  The edge that non-jump ships have over jump capable ships is well known. I'll
just repeat that a ship with J4 will have 30% less space for useful things
than the non-jump capable ship. Besides, a jumpdrive costs a lot of money,
money that could be better used for weapons.

  The only advantage that I can see the attacker would have is that his 
forces would be concentrated while the defender would have to guard the entire
system. As shown by history, this might be enough to enable the attacker to win.
'Win' in this case means that they reach the mainworld.

> engage.   In  any  case, the mainworld will be  warned.   The  planetary 
> defenses  will stand ready, deep meson gun sites prepared to fire,  grav 
> craft dispersed and moving or hidden in the oceans or deep bunkers as  a 
> reserve.  As the fleet approaches the planet, all craft in orbit will be 
> detected  and  identified.

  The defending ships have nothing to do in low orbit. They are much more usable
far out in the outer system not for what they can do there but for the threat
they represent there. A threat that will tie up a portion of the attacking
fleet. Any defending ships left on the planet are better off sitting on the 
ground with their powerplants and interior grav off until the attackers are in 
range. The closeness to a major mass, the atmosphere, the powerplants on the 
planet etc all make them much more difficult to detect that way. Add to that 
that the ships can be hidden inside larger structures or below ground.
  
  o Passive energy scans won't see them. (It will however get a lot of clutter
from civilian sources)

  o Passive object scan won't see them. The figures for passive object scan and
pin used in space combat comes from the densitometer range/resolution tables
column 'smallest object detectable in *open space*'. Unless the target use
artificial grav which will make it stick out like a sore thumb, the only way
to detect a ship is to recognise it's shape and the materials used. And to do
that with any amount of accuracy the sensor needs to be closer than 500km 
(10m resolution) or even 50km (1m resolution). [The attacking ships will on the
other hand be in open space and easy to see].

  o Active object scan probably won't see them. To see them it has to use a 
frequency range where the cover the ships have (say metal and concrete) will
let the radiation through, but the ship will reflect it. And as far as I know,
anything that will penetrate metal won't be reflected by a ship. The question 
is: Will superdense reflect xrays?:)

> Cheap  drones emitting the electromagnetic signature of important  craft 
> may  be deployed to confuse the attacker's perception of where the  tar-
> gets  are,  but there will be no way to hide where  the  defenders  _are 
> not_. 

  See above.  

> Drones are a two edged sword, for the attacker will use as  well 
> in the next phase.  Prepared for the planetary meson guns, the attacking 
> fleet does not hazard the largest ships against them. Instead they rely 
> on  saturating the defenses with numerous smaller craft  and/or  drones.  
> Some  will  be lost to meson gun fire, some to ground based  lasers  and 
> missiles. Many will get through, and most of them will carry  substan-
> tial  sensor suites, jam-proof maser communicators, and enough  tactical 
> computing  power  to pass the reconnaissance information to  the  combat 
> control  center(s).

  See above. They will only be able to detect what is firing at them. It is
extremely tough to detect a defensive installation that don't want to be seen.
I think that a resolution of less than one meter is needed, because they are
as opposed to ships, not made of readily recognizable materials like super-
dense. And if the drones and small-crafts go that close, they'll begin to take
fire from the groundforces as well.

> not,  the skies above the planet will soon belong to the  attacker.   In 
> either  case, this phase of operations will be comparatively  short  and 
> extremely rapid.  Logistics will not be a consideration when almost  all 
> craft  are  armed with energy weapons requiring no ammunition  and  have 
> fuel  for days or weeks of continuous operation. The entire  atmosphere 
> and  close  orbit space will be an enormous swirling dogfight  as  craft 
> engage at hundred of kilometers at speeds of thousands of kilometers per 
> hour.

  Since the defender have no reductions imposed by logistics (compared to the
attacker at least) they can ripple-fire arbitrarily large amounts of nukes
at the attacking small crafts, most too small to have nuke dampers, since the
larger nuke damper carrying ships are hiding out of range. The attacker can
either and use nukes too (and hope that the defender don't have a lot of 
ground-based nuke dampers that work in conjunction with his crafts) which will 
place even greater strain on their transport capacity. Or they can bite the 
sour apple and try to fight it out anyway using only energy weaponry, in which 
case they have a big force multiplier against them.

> The attackers will make a special effort  to  target  any 
> immobile  communication  and sensor facilities that  are  detected...

  A Tech 15 sensor suite capable of doing a passive energy scan and pin as good
as any starship has the following data: 0.232 kl, 111kg, 430kCr. Cheaper than
a suit of battledress. It can be hooked up to the normal power net and 
communicate over the civilian computer network. It is preferrably powered by
batteries or solar cells to make it harder to detect (2.6m2 solar cells) and
for 250kCr extra it can have a 500km meson link.
  
  Sensors such as these (or 1.5MCr more expensive if they shall be able to do
passive object scan/pin) can be hidden literally everywhere. The world might
have a law that every newbuilt house has to have one on the roof. A group of
sensors can be patched in to a computer site. That site is in communication
with a deep relay site (one of many), not directly with the meson pit to
make it impossible for attackers to find out the location of a meson pit by
conquering a sensor or a computer site.

  The sensors are passive, and if they use batteries or solar cells they have
no neutrino signature, and they are hidden among billions of transmitters and
other electronics on the ground. All in all a tough target.

> al-
> though a deep meson gun site may have multiple sensor and  communication 
> relay  stations, without the use of meson communicators the  final  link 
> must  be immobile, though perhaps concealed and well  hardened.   (Meson 
> communicators  will allow the deep site spotters to be mobile and  main-
> tain communications through the ground without the use of surface  level 
> relay points.) (A deep meson gun site should be buried below the maximum 
> resolution  level of the enemy's densitometers, which is  one  kilometer 
> for  a TL15 invader.  The existence of TL16 sensor-building  planets  at 
> the  Imperial Core just prior to the outbreak of the Civil War has  pre-
> sumably rendered sites buried to the 1km minimum obsolete.)

  I've always been sceptical towards the claim that the only way of discovering
the deep meson gun pits is to use densitometers. Since meson guns impacting a
meson screen gives a signature (Digest#6? It's the starship issue at least)
that should be enough to triangulate some likely positions, and the planets
transparency to mesons is a two-edged sword... 
  Alternate solutions might be good oldfashioned intelligence work or good
zho-fashioned clairvoyance work:) The attacker might also try to locate the
powerplants that feeds the meson pits with neutrino sensors and blow them
away with their own meson guns. The trouble for the attackers is that they never
can be sure if they have destroyed *all* powerplants and meson pits or if there
are a few left that has been shut down to be undetectable... waiting...

> Both combat-
> ants  will attempt to attack as many of the enemy's most capable  sensor 
> platforms  as  possible, but the size and power TL14+ sensors  makes  it 
> easy  enough for every grav tank to be its own Gulf War  J-STARS  system 
> equivalent.   If  the defender has concealed assets at the  end  of  the 
> 'dogfight' phase, they may now be cut off from central command, and will 
> probably  lack the opportunity for large scale surprise.

  Groundforces may also use meson communicators to communicate with deep
control sites via deep relay sites. All gravtanks may for example have the 
orders that 'If out of contact with HQ, try contracting these coordinates <list
of a handful of sites> using meson link'. It would be hard for the enemy to
capture any intact enemy grav-vehicles during the early part of the battle, so
discovery of the relay sites is a minor problem.

>      After the 'dogfight' comes the 'mop-up'.  Immobile defending  posi-
> tions are assaulted as soon as overwhelming force can be brought to bear 
> against  them.

  The trouble is that, to quote 'Murphys laws of combat': 'If the enemy is in
range, so are you.' If enough large ships come close enough to begin firing at
ground targets the ground targets will begin to fire back. And you can fit more
lasers on a planet than on a whole batron:)

  Small defence weapons can by the way also be deployed as the sensors above.
A small mount with self-contained powerplant and a meson link to a computer 
site in the vicinity along with a number of collegues.  Almost impossible to 
detect until it fires. To protect against visual and active EMS detection it
can be contructed as a pop-up facility.
  [Real-life comment:the Swedish air defence use pop-up radars that are 
supposed to duck down behind heavy blastdoors and several meters of rock if any
ARMs or other missiles are heading their way. Target memory won't help a AS-12
Kedge against that.]

> Limited force, in the form of infantry with very  selec-
> tive  direct fire support, might be used against targets which  the  at-
> tacker  desired to capture intact, or where collateral damage is  to  be 
> avoided,  such as cities--it has already been mentioned that an  assault 
> would only be ordered with an intent to capture, so it is to be  assumed 
> that  these  target would exist. 

  The most effective orbit-to-ground fire support weapon is the meson gun.
With a few forward observers on the ground the attacker can surgically 
annihilate defensive positions. According to Striker a meson gun used against
ground targets have a 100% kill percentage within 100 to 200 meters. The 
defender may however have meson screens. As for the best way of removing a 
defensive installation, I'd recommend nukes fired using direct fire from so
close that the point defence and nuke dampers never have time to react
(Either 500 meters or 50 meters according to Striker. It'll have to be small 
 nukes to fire them at 50 meters:)

> With his mobile  forces  destroyed  or 
> otherwise  neutralized, each of these targets/force concentrations  will 
> be isolated.

  The defenders won't move their mobile forces unless the attackers forces them,
because they are much harder to detect if they sit tight (like for ships). So
what the attackers has to do is force the defenders to begin to concentrate 
their forces, and the best way is to open a bridgehead at some lightly defended
part of the planet. The defenders will then have to choose between letting the
landing continue unopposed (and attackers on the ground will be as hard to 
detect for the defenders as defenders on the ground are for the attackers, the
attackers may also start to deploy their own defensive networks etc) or try to 
crush the beachhead with ships, grav-vehicles and ground forces. 
  As those begin to move they will become visible to the attackers who will 
start to attack them from orbit and air, and as the attackers units move into
range for the defensive installation the defender will start to fire back. As
'new' defensive installation and units reveal themself the attackers will have 
to attack them as well, to protect their own ships and so it continues.
  If the attackers manage to supress the defensive fire they can go on with
their main mission, which is to destroy the defenders ground forces, otherwise
there will be a 'ground' (ie gravtanks, gcarriers and infantry) battle where
the defender tries to crush the bridgehead.

  It's all a question of if the attacker runs out of ships before the defender
runs out of hidden batteries, since once the attacker knows about the existance
of a battery, he can destroy it if he makes enough of a commitment.
  There is of course also the normal amount of doublecrossing etc where the
defender lets one battery among several fire and when the attacker sends some
ships after it, the others reveal themselves and destroys the ships. And
conversely: the attacker sends down some ships that are shielding what seems
to be several transports, and when the defensive batteries open up, reveal
themselves as cruisers and blows away the batteries.

  I'll suspect that when the defenders mobile forces are destroyed, the 
defenders will surrender because they have lost their only way of cutting the
attackers foothold. The situation is comparable to a 20th century nation that
just have had it's army, navy and airforce destroyed, but still has some
SAMs and coastal SSMs.

>      After  the final formal surrender will be the  'occupation'  phase. 
> Guerrilla  resistance  will be made difficult by the  sensor  imbalance.  
> The existence of the advanced sensors postulated in the game would  seem 
> to make counterinsurgency trivial for a high-tech attacker.  A guerrilla 
> attack  occurs,  using  weapons hidden and not  discovered  in  searches 
> during the 'mop-up' phase.  The attacker is immediately alerted,  either 
> by  jam-proof communications or by the sudden appearance of  jamming  on 
> the  passive sensor network.  A grav mounted rapid response  force  sur-
> round the area, sets up a sensor interdiction perimeter, and attacks any 
> immediately  detectable  enemy forces.

  Densitometer scans will have to have a resolution of less than 20cm, probably
between 5 and 1cm to recognize a weapon. That means a range of less than 500 
meters and a scan dimention of 5m per scan. I've forgot how long a densitometer
scan takes, but it would still be a major undertaking unless the population was
to pass through checkpoints. And scanning the entire countryside is almost out 
of question. And to foul the scan's it's easy to make another law that every 
house built has to have a bunch of weapons replicas walled up in the cellar:)

>    As I said at the beginning, I'm trying to extrapolate what the situa-
> tion would look like with fast, highly capable craft which can attack at 
> very  long distances by current standards.  If there is any interest  in 
> this, we can discuss what the 'view from the cockpit' might look like at 
> different levels on each side of this sort of operation, as well as what 
> it would look like to non-combatants on the ground.

  Any sensible non-combatant would hide in a shelter.

  To summarize I don't think that the balance between the defender and the 
attacker will change greatly at higher TL. The attacker will have greater
capabilities than today but so will the defender. The best edge is still to
be several times more than the defenders or/and have and edge of one or more
techlevels. And the problem of logistics will still exist and it's a big problem
when the nearest source of supply is one jump away. I'm leaning towards that
it is big enough to make a planetary invasion a *major* undertaking that 
requires the combined resources of a large part of the imperium for a long
time (If the target is Hi In TL14-15).

  (Ouch! 19k I think I'll end here and put the rest, a brief recouting of the 
battle of Naasakiira, a planetary invasion that I've actually played, in a
separate message)

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2523
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1991 17:46 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Planetary invasion tactics

Ok, Ok,

What is the mission?

Is the mission to wipe out the entire population?  Then drop nuclear warheads
on an intercept course somewhere out in the umpteenth orbit.  They come in
like meterorites and are undetectable until BOOM.

Alternate:  It takes a 1G ship 35.39 days to reach 1/10 speed of light.
6G's 5.9 days.  At that speed 10 grams has the equivalent energy of a
kiloton.  No way to stop it no screens. no dampers no lasers, no detection
just pure BOOM.

If you want to wipe a planet out, that's the way to do it.

But I think most of the invasions are going with the object of capturing a
planet, so using nukes as Bertil suggets is out.  Like wise for the defenders
You don't throw nukes around if you want to live on your own planet, and
If you start throwing them so will the other guy.  Right?

Finding a deep site meson gun is a snap.

You can do it with a densiometer pen of 1m or less.
Fire your meson gun at the surface.  BoooM!  Sismic shock pattern monitored by
densiometer.  They do it now for oil with dynamite.  Why not at higher tech.
	You could even do it without the densiometer, just use LADAR to
measure ground movement.  Even Jamming the Active EMS wont work on LADAR.

This is why I designed the 
Meson Sub, At it's geothermal site, no neutrino emmisions, with nearly 3km of
water of equal density to the ship it's gonna be real tough to find.

About destroying the sensor relay's, you'd have to destroy nearly everything
on the planet that you want to capture intact.

By the way I think I left it off when i posted it, but the Herbert Dean
class Meson Sub is TL 15

I really think subs are the way to go in planetary defence.  Everything else
could be destroyed too fast.  Mobile defences are the key.  This is why the
US spends so much on AntiSubmarine Warfare.  Those SSBN Boomer subs are
deadly!!!!

This is also why in an earlyer post of mine I included an ASW contingent in
my TL-11 Overlord class Assault Helicarrier.  That was designed for planetary
invasions.

Just rambling disconneted thoughts

Mr. Scott

Three Vargr are running down a wet dirt road.
The feet of the first are throwing mud up on the second, and the feet of the
second are throwing it up on the third.

After getting his nice new uniform all soiled, the second turns to the third
and says "It's a bitch aien't it?"

The third reply's "I sure hope so..."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2524
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: The Battle of Naasakiira
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 91 1:11:43 MET DST

  Place: Naasakiira (Corridor 1309) C556687-9  Ag Ni

  Date: 050-1118

  Attacking forces: Large Vargr corsair band consisting of:

   12 7000t Aenoegrr Strike 'Cruiser' TL13 J2 M2 A1 1MesonE 3Fusion8 5Missile6
				      Damper3 MesonSc3 Model7fib
   24 800t  Oegveng  Gunned Corvettes TL13 J2 M4 A4 1Pulselaser6	
				      Damper2          Model7fib
   6 30000t Goerrghkfae Assault Transports TL13 J2 M1 A0 Turrets have been
                                           cannibalized to support capture of
					   Depot/Corridor. Model7fib
  
   Each assault transport carries one mechanized regiment consisting of
     800 8t combat and support vehicles and 5000 troops. The composition of
     forces were four lift infantry regiments, one grav armor regiment and
     one artillery/air defence/support regiment. All 6 were fully mechanized 
     and all troops had space to ride in grav vehicles down to the last mechanic
     and supply clerk:)
     They had config7 to be able to launch all vehicles at once.

    [ The first two ships appeared in the starship issue of Digest in the
      hands of the Vargr force that tries to help Zid Rachele steal a few
      cruisers from Dynam Depot ]

  Defending forces: The Naasakiira system defence force:

    1 1000t Chrysantemum DE TL15 (which just happened to be in the area:)
    
    6 5000t SDBs TL9 (Exact stats forgotten, but they didn't last one round
		      anyway)

    6 factor 7 missile batteries.

    15 factor 8 beam laser batteries.

    60 factor 8 sand caster batteries.

    These batteries were organized in to three areas, one defending the 
    starport, one defending the capitol and one defending the largest spaceport.

    The Naasakiira ground forces were equipped to TL9, 4 mechanized infantry
      regiments, one lift infantry regiment and one grav armor regiment.
      One infantry regiment defended each group of batteries and the last one
      were spread out around the govermental buildings and various other 
      areas. The grav-troops were held as a reserve.

      All troops and vehicles had prepared positions and shelters.

      [ The vehicles used were the Rob's Akian line (the Shellback, Cossack,
        Longbow etc, with stats remade for Striker and tac-missiles added) ]
   
   The vargr force had already defeated a large group of SDB's in an initial
engagement around one gas giant.

   As I mentioned, the SDBs waiting in low orbit didn't survive the first round
of meson gun and nuke missile fire from the Aenoegrr ships. They got
destroyed critical hits (the space battle used Rebel Guard) before they had
even fired a shot. The Aenoegrr ships deployed as to screen the relatively
defenseless assault transports until they were close enough to deploy their 
troops. As the force closed on the planet, the planetary defences started to
chip away at it. One assault transport became dead-in-space and one suffered a
cargo hit on it's load of munitions and simply blew up when the DE surprised 
the vargr force from behind (the didn't have the time to reorganize the screen
to cover the back as well).
  Meanwhile the attackers try to silence the ground based batteries but have
little success, the batteries are stationary, but they are very heavily 
shielded and the sandcasters manage to deflect most nuke-missile and laser
salvoes.
  The dead-in-space transport playes possum and hopes that everyone has 
forgotten it.

  The DE manage to avoid major damage through fancy flying and hiding behind
other ships. It's missiles are the only missiles that are able to penetrate
the nuke dampers of the Aenoegrr ships due to the difference in computers.
It manage to chew up enough screening ships that the ground batteries were able
to get some shots in at the assault transports. Another transport suffers the
cargo hit fate (10+ on 2D leading to explosion in some of the carried ammuntion.I still can't believe that the players rolled 10+ almost every time!:-o).

  One Aenoegrr ships suffers a ship vaporized 'Destroyed' crit, and another
failes morale and let the transport screen it instead. When the force reach 
drop distance only 4 Aenoegrr, 18 corvettes and 2 transports remain, mainly due
to the DE. When they begin to drop, the DE flies past the screen in to visual
range (as close as a few km) to one of the transports and fires a nuke missile
salvoe which hits almost 100%. The transport gets a 'ship partly shattered'
result and the aft 25% of it is destroyed at the same time as the DE gets a 
little irradiated. The main part of the regiment deploys in order.

  The 1.75 regiments attack one group of batteries each to clear the way for
the transports and corvettes to land and load up with loot. The first wave
in is the assault speeders armed with forward firing rapid plasma gun B's, 
16 lense 8MW pulse lasers to function as point defence against SAMs, and
20 tons of cluster and 1000 kg bombs each as well as ARMs. The troops huddle in
shelters as the air defence vehicles roll out to face the speeders. The speeders
lauch the ARMs at the SAM vehicles and the SAM vehciels fires back. A number
of SAM vehicles are hit and looses their radars, and few SAMs hit, but they do
no major damage against the factor 30 speeders. Some speeders are shot down
by the laser batteries, but they have trouble slweing fast enough to hit the
wildly jinking speeders. 
  The speeders sweep in, strafing the defenders with their plasmaguns and
dropping clouds of cluster and 1ton bombs (the load of a B52 is about 25tons)
Some shelters are hit, most are not, the HE cluster bombs have trouble 
penetrating the defending vehicles but there are causualities. As the speeders 
sweep out, more SAMs are fired but they are all shot down by the PD pulse 
lasers. 
  Next the infantry lands and the grav tanks begin to knock off the defending
batteries and tanks one by one, while defeating the return fire with point
defence pulse lasers. Very few attacking vehicles are destroyed while the
defenders are taking heavy causualities. The attackers also begin to call in
meson gun fire from orbit to annihilate large areas at once. Unless the wild
factor, the DE had been there, the vargr forces would have won in hours. As it
now happened, the DE used it's sandcasters against the infantry and fired
salvoes of nuke missiles against the fighting vehicles. 

  When the ships in orbit discovered that their ground force were being 
annihilated, they accelerated away and jumped outsystem. The powerless
assault transport surrendered, but during the time from the surrender to that
the Naasakiira forces managed to scrape a few ships together to ferry them
down a lot escaped in smallcrafts to hide in the outer system.
  
  The Naasakiira defence used the caputured equipment to reinforce itself, the
captured troops to begin rebuilding the starport which had been totally levelled
during the fighting. They also sent a delagation to the Glory of Taerz... (It's
1AM here, much to late for me to remember vargr spelling:) and managed to 
strike a deal where the Glory forces took over the protection of Naasakiira in
exchange for about as much as Naasakiira had payed to the Imperial military 
previosly.

  Material damage were extreme. The starport and the spaceport lay in ruins.
The capitol had taken a few stray hits (the attackers got bridge destroyed crits
on the defenders). The attacking forces lost 21000 dead and 10000 captured. 
The defenders lost about 40000 dead (30000 civilians) and half that amount 
wounded (here too 75% civilians). Hightech combat involving meson guns and 
nuclear missiles is very very deadly.

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2525
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1991 21:52:27 -0700 (MST)
From: spg@alpha.sunquest.COM
Subject: Re:  TML nightly: Msgs 2499-2504 V21#18

#> Why is it, when at TL11 a model 1 computer fits on your wrist, the ships
#> computer is just as big as a TL8 model 1 computer?
#
#If we ever get back to TDR, the full range of 'tech improved' components 
#will obviously have to address computers.  I tried to fit that hand computer
#into a draft chart for computer size/weight by TL, and there was no way
#to get it to fit in reasonably.  My temporary solution is to ignore the
#line that says that it is equivalent to a Model 1.  If we do decrease
#computer size/weight/cost with increasing tech level, there will be one
#immediately apparent effect on the game--TL14/15 merchant ships will easily
#be able to mount Comp 5,6,or 7, making piracy and so forth, especially
#by lower tech ships, even more unviable than it is already.  Vargr corsairs
#beware...

Ahem.  ;-) Let's take a look at current technology for a moment. 
Granted, there _are_ computers that would fall into the weight category
of a hand computer (and in fact, are such), the desktop models of the
same are quite a bit larger.  Much of this is due to the requirements
for input/output devices (keyboards and CRTs come to mind) as well as
the various economies of scale.

Futhermore, one would probably _not_ expect the same amount of
expandability in a hand computer as a desk-top model.  Sure, the CPU
speeds are the same, but I'd really like to see you lug around a 600 MB
SCSI drive interfaced to your Atari portfolio ;-)

Finally, we must consider the working environment of a desk + chair + cpu +
printer + peripherals + documentation + offline storage (floppies to
several MB [currently]).  My current work-space (at home) would take up
a minimum of 9 square meters.  If we consider the tonnage requirements
of various computer models based on _volume_, rather than actual
tonnage, the rules are still pretty much in line.  (Especially if the
rules are modified to allow for computer staff.)

Just my $0.02

 ____________________________________________________________________________
| Steve Gibbons, H.I.S. Interfacing | 602/885-7700x2649 or 602/296-8936(Fax) |
|   Sunquest Information Systems    |  spg@{alpha|beta|charon}.sunquest.com  |
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
| Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of   |
| the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced.                       |
| - Albert Einstein, "Ideas and Opinions", 1954                              |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2526
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1991 20:21 EDT
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Alternate Character Generation (Long)

Some of our AD&D group said they wouldn't mind playing Traveller if I should
make the character generation be easier and more at their control.  Below is a
system that I dreamed up over night.  It has bugs -- I'm sure.  I would like
some feed back on it.  Take a few minutes and try it out.  If I can get the
kinks worked out of it, I will probably use it because, I am wanting so much to
do something becides chop, slice, dice, et. al. orcs all day long.

Thanks
Rob

- - ------8<--- Cut Here -----------------


                       Traveller
                 Character Generation

Overview:
This is a new way of generating Traveller characters.  It is based, in
principle, on the methods found in games such as GRUPS and Champions.  The
characters is created rather than rolled up.  While some like the random
varibility of the Traveller system, others prefer to have more control over
the characters development.  This system allows that without violating game
balance.  The created characters should fall between those of the basic system
and the advanced system in the number of skills and stat modifiers.

Instead of working with a term at a time, we randomly determine when the
character will enter play.  Their starting age is calcuated as follows:

Starting Age = 22 + 2d6, each 6 earns an extra roll.

Thus the starting age is open ended.  Generally the starting age will be around
29 years old.  Each character has a number of skill points that are used through
out the generation process to buy stats and skills.  The number of skill points
is computed as follows:

Starting Points = 10 + Age

The average 29 year old character will start play with 39 skill points.  This
system allows the GM to give out experience after play that the characters can
directly apply to their stats and skills, much like GURPS and Champions.  These
points should be 2 or 3 a session.  The rules for reading the Stat and Skill
charts change after the character is created.  During the creation, the skill
points listed are the cost for that level of skill.  After play begins, the
cost to go from one skill level to another costs the listed amount.  This
will be detailed later.

Stats:

Stat      Cost      Stat      Cost
 1        -32        9          2
 2        -16        A          4
 3         -8        B          8
 4         -4        C         16
 5         -2        D         32
 6         -1        E         64
 7          0        F         96
 8          1

Thus, if a player desires his or her character to have a Dexterity of C (12)
it would cost them 16 character points.  After play starts, and that character
is improved to a D (13) dexterity, it would cost the player 32 points.  At
creation time, it would have only cost 16 points in addition to the 16 already
spent on the C dexterity.

Skills:
Skills work much like stats.  The player spends points to buy skills at a
certain level as determined by the following chart.

Skill     Cost
  0         1
  1         2
  2         4
  3         8
  4        16
  5        32
  6        64
  7        96
  8       128  (Each point above 8, costs an additional 32 points).

All skills must be purchased at the lowest cascade level.  Thus Jet Aircraft-3
could be purcahsed for 8 points.  If the player prefers to have the whole
cascade group, it can be bought for the next highest points.  Thus, the
following are examples of buying groups.

Jet Aircraft-3 = 8 points
Aircraft-3 = 16 points
Vehicals-3 = 32 points

(Note this could cause a problem where the cascade skills run to different
levels).

After play begins, the cost to improve is read straight from the chart and no
one may improve more than one level in a session.  Thus, if the Jet-Aircraft-3
player wanted to improve to Jet Aircraft-4, it would cost 16 experience points.

Stats may be improved in a similar fashion, however to keep players from
abusing this, a die roll determines which stats are improved.  If a player
wants to have three stat rolls, it would cost them 8 points.  The stat that is
improved is based on the following chart:

        Roll           Stat
        1              Strength
        2              Dexterity
        3              Endurance
        4              Intellegence
        5              Education
        6              Social Standing

Each character starts with some base skills and some given skills based on
their branch of service.  The following chart details these base skills.

Computer-0 (Artisan-0 if TL too low)
Vehical-0 (Equestrian if TL too low)
Gun Cbt-0 (Hand Cbt of TL too low)

Service         Skills
Army            Cbt Rifle-1, Brawling-0
Sailor          Small Watercraft-1, Mechanic-0
Flyer           (Aircraft)-1, Vacc Suit-0
Navy            (Space)-1, Vacc Suit-0
Marine          (Blade)-1, Vacc Suit-0
Scout           Pilot-1, Vacc Suit-0
Merchant        Trader-1, Admin-0
Belter          Vacc Suit-1, Prospecting-0
Pirate          Brawling-1, Streetwise-0
Rogue           Streetwise-1, Stealth-0
Hunter          Hunting-1, Rifle-0
Law Enf         Pistol-1, Streetwise-0
Doctor          Medic-1, (Tech)-0
Diplomat        Liason-1, Lingustics-0
Bureaucrat      Admin-1, Interview-0
Scientist       (Tech)-1, (Science)-0
Noble           +1 Soc, Carousing-0

All skills in (parantheses) are cascade skills and the player must choose a
skill from the lowest level or pay for the group.

Mustering Out:
        At the age where the character will begin play, the character is
mustered out at that point.  Rank, starting cash value, and possessions are
determined.  Instead of making cash rolls, the characters Social Standing
determines their starting wealth.  Note: This includes the value of all
possession except for those gained during this phase.  If a character is
listed as having 50,000 credits and they claim to own a house, the GM must
determine the value of that house and deduct it from their available cash.
Also, the GM must limit the starting cash of high Social Standing characters
by forcing them to have a large sum of their value tied up in investments, etc.

        Soc            Credits                 Soc            Credits
         1                 500                  9             200,000
         2               1,000                  A             500,000
         3               2,000                  B           1,000,000
         4               5,000                  C           2,000,000
         5              10,000                  D           5,000,000
         6              20,000                  E          10,000,000
         7              50,000                  F          20,000,000
         8             100,000

Additional Musting Out benifits are determined by the characters finishing age.

        Finish Age    Rolls            Roll         Benifit
          22-25         1                1          Low Passage
          26-29         2                2          Weapon
          30-33         3                3          Middle Passage
          34+           4                4          High Passage
                                         5          Traveller's Aid Society*
                                         6          Ship (10 years pmts)

Finally, Rank is determined by finish age and Social Standing.  The following
chart shows the equivialant Officer Rank for Navy and Army people.  The GM
should assign titles and such accordingly to other services.

      Rank    Title                    Age Range         Soc  Age Group Mod
        1     Ensign/2LT                Upto 24           9       +1
        2     Lt JG/1LT                 25-26             A       +1
        3     Lt/Cpt                    27-30             B       +2
        4     Lt Cmdr/Major             31-36             C       +2
        5     Cmdr/Lt Col               37-42             D       +3
        6     Cpt/Col                   43-50             E       +4
        7     Commodore/Brig Gen        51-56             F       +5
        8     Rear Adm/Lt Gen           57-62
        9     Vice Adm/Maj Gen          63-68
       10     Adm/Gen                   69+

Characters with higher Social Standing can use their influence to speed up
promotions.  This is the reason for the modifier.  Thus a 33 year old character
with a B Social Standing would be of rank 6.  Their age of 33 made them a
rank 4, and their social influences has moved them up the ranks faster.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2527
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 91 22:20:06 -0400
Subject: Nanotechnology in MT
From: tnc!m0068@uunet.UU.NET (Stephen D Smith)

    Here's a general question for all of the TML. Is there a reason

why MegaTraveller doesn't touch upon nanotechnology? About the
closest I've seen is;
 
    1) the rather vague references to "genetic engineering"
 
    2) the even more shadowy references to the advanced technology
that the Droyne "Grandfather" uses.
 
    3) maybe the technology used to create AB101?
 
          Stephen D Smith   USENET: m0068@tnc.UUCP
                            BIX: sdsmith
- - --Name = STEPHEN SMITH  Mailbox # = 68

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        tinylk!1!170!104!chuck.mcknight@tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu (Chuck McKnight),
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Subject: TML Bundle #207: Msgs 2528-2549
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Precedence: bulk
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 21:00:17 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Jul 10 21:00:12 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #207: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2528  07-Jul-91 George William He Deep Meson Sites << I don't think that we sho
2529  07-Jul-91 Marc Alexandrovic Large scale combat, infantry << As soon as en
2530  07-Jul-91 Marc Alexandrovic Basalt producing Battalion Batterer << Well, 
2531  07-Jul-91 Leonard Erickson  Planetary invasions, Tech "smuggling" << Adva
2532  07-Jul-91 MacGyver          Re: (2527) Nanotechnology in MT << > why Mega
2533  07-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Arnie rules supp for Trav << A while ago some
2534  07-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Planet invasions, assinations, cabbages and k
2535  07-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Computer size << The reason I asked about com
2536  08-Jul-91 "Alvin M. Chan"   arnie as T15 << >Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1991 21:32 
2537  08-Jul-91 Mark F. Cook      Missing TML Digest? << Hey gang, I just got b
2538  08-Jul-91 richard@oresoft.C The MT Computer Game << Tried to play a littl
2539  08-Jul-91 William Henry Tim Re: (2535) Computer size << :) That's funny, 
2540  08-Jul-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas Planetary invasions << LARGE SCALE WARFARE IN
2541  07-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Nanotech << > From: tnc!m0068@uunet.UU.NE
2542  08-Jul-91 guam!kominetz@cbm Terminator << [New subject line and forwarded
2543  08-Jul-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas Planetary invasions and other things << This 
2544  08-Jul-91 Mark F. Cook      Oops!! Never mind... << That's what I get for
2545  08-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Origins and Things << I am afraid I fell down
2546  08-Jul-91 Brian Larkin      Starports << Fellow MT junkies -- After spend
2547  08-Jul-91 Brian Larkin      Ship Design << In the MT Ref's Manual it list
2548  09-Jul-91 MacGyver          link between net and GEnie << > Is there anyo
2549  09-Jul-91 Rob Miracle       Re: Richard Johnson's Disclaimer << >IMPORTAN

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2528
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 91 01:32:29 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Deep Meson Sites


 
	 I don't think that we should give up on Deep Meson Sites quite so
easily (though Scott Kellogg has a bunch of good points 8-) .  Rather, let's
look at a well-done survivable Deep Meson network.
	  
	First, let's assume that the point is to build a net of 10 sites, geo 
powered with factor-T meson guns.  Each site's weapons already cost MCr 1000,
so total installation value (per) is probably nearly MCr 2000 or so.  Make them
manned, unless you're worried about Zhodani in the area, then make them
unmanned (but man-tended) or put psi-shields in the walls.  In any case, bury
them far enough that neither densiometers nor nukes are a real threat... say
5km.
	 Now, given that they're 5km deep and need to have secret locations,
and that the project will cost MCr20,000 without any infrastructure, we can
start to arrainge the whole network.  Say we build a tunnel, from one base
to another, 5km deep.  Make it a bit curvey, and somewhat variable depth, just
to confuse people.  Say it's 50km long.  Given current engineering prices,
and a reasonable extrapolation of dollar->Cr, it's going to be three to five
billion credits to build.  That's ok, we've already budgeted 20, so going
50% more on other stuff would be reasonable.  Assume that the main tunnel is
5 billion credits.
	Off the main tunnel, at random intervals, run side tunnels.  Make them
about 5km long, but of variable length and at random directions
	Have robots make the tunnels, and don't let someone on the outside
plan the locations.  Don't even keep records of the locations.  You don't need
them.  Have all transport to the sites via inertial-compensated vehicles in
the tunnels, so nobody knows where they're going, and can't run an inertial
trace on position.  Assume that the side tunnels and other stuff are about
another 5 billion credits.  Run wiring so that if a single site loses power
or targeting, it can get it from the rest.  Handle targeting with a large
network of meson-communicator connected passive (and thus untracable) EMS
sensor sites, and neutrino detectors colocated with the Deep Meson guns (they
don't emit and work perfectly well under rock).
	
	This arraingement is difficult to trace, and nearly impossible to 
destroy.  If you're worried about people running seismic waves through to find
where tunnels run, just pipe grout into the ground in wierd patterns to shield
or confuse seismic returns from the area. (cheap).  The whole thing doesn't 
cost all that much either, compared to the guns... The installations only
cost as much as the weapons themselves, ignoring the power system.

	Alternate arrangements might be a whole interconnected network of 
tunnels, tunnels with mobile crawlers with meson guns, and I'm sure more are
possible.

- - -george william herbert

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2529
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 91 01:50:10 PDT
Subject: Large scale combat, infantry


As soon as energy weapons with long range and high rate of fire become
plentyful infantry will have horrendous problems on the battlefield,
grav belts or no. A gatling arrangement of 5 25Mw laser turrets can sweep
a large area at a high penetration and damage (for infantry) without
lowering the firing craft's ability to fight. This ability, coupled with
good longrange sensors make open field battle a virtual deathtrap for
dismounted infantry.

Dismounted infantry shall maintain an edge on vehicles in builtup areas and
indoors, as well as heavily broken or wooded ground. The air/space above
the battlefield (battlespace?) shall be controlled by a combination of 
vehicles - a-la modern surface fleet.



+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Marc A. Volovic                           email: mav@lizardo.huji.ac.il |
| Linguistics Dept                          snail: P.O. Box 23114         |
| Hebrew University                                Jerusalem, 91230       |
| Jerusalem, Israel                                Israel                 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                       Linguists do it cunningly                         |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2530
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 91 02:02:01 PDT
Subject: Basalt producing Battalion Batterer


Well, NOTHING short of a major starship weapon can do anything to that bugger.
Missiles (unless directed in the hundreds) are useless against a foe that
can target and fire 4 250km lasers as anti-missile fire.

Prognosis:

	Task Force (Planetary), TOE

Major Ship Units (atmosphere capable)
APV-FS Vechiles
AP Vehicles		AV Vehicles		Grav Tanks
Grav APC		C^3I Vehicles		Grav Arty
Logistics Vehicles	HQ Vehicles		
Liason Vehicles		
Infantry

1st line are the major units, going down in survivability to infantry. However,
as soon as this task force MUST take a built up area INTACT (i.e. not slagged
and radioactive) the organization becomes:

Infantry		Light AP Vehicles (i.e. high ROF AP APC)
Grav Tanks
Grav Arty		Grav APC
Logistics Vehicles	HQ Vehicles
C^3I Vehicles
Liason Vehicles

The superheavy AP-FS of the BPBB Phalanx type is non-introduceable into the
conflict and must be used to interdict battlespace around the primary
target.

Thus the BPBB is a High-Guard unit of city and woodland combat.


+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Marc A. Volovic                           email: mav@lizardo.huji.ac.il |
| Linguistics Dept                          snail: P.O. Box 23114         |
| Hebrew University                                Jerusalem, 91230       |
| Jerusalem, Israel                                Israel                 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                       Linguists do it cunningly                         |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2531
Date: 07 Jul 91 14:36:28 EDT
From: Leonard Erickson <70465.203@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Planetary invasions, Tech "smuggling"

Advanced sensor suites may not be as much help as you might think. For
instance, in Dean McLaughlin's "Hawk Among the Sparrows" we have a TL7
or 8 fighter/recon plane against TL 5(?) biplanes (think of an advanced
version of the SR-71 getting thrown back to WW I).

The pilot discovers to his horror, that his radar & heat guided
missiles are useless. There's so little metal in the biplanes that the
radar rejects them as static or decoys. And as for heat seeking, there
are several orders of magnitude difference between a jet turbine and a
primitive internal combustion engine.

As for guerillas needing to hide weapons, it all depends. What you can
do with common household items is astonishing. If you allow "safe" 
industrial items the list grows even more. A certain type of fuel and a
certain agricultural chemical combine to make an explosive rather
better than dynamite, if somewhat less stable.  This is why the Army
has *long* lists of materials that must be controlled if sabotage or
guerilla warfare are expected.

BTW, a trebuchet makes a nice, hard to detect, indirect fire artillery
piece. It's got quite a range if you are using high TL projectiles.

Now as to getting things past TL restrictions, allow me to suggest
reading "King David's Spaceship" by Jerry Pournelle. To someone at
TL14, the difference between TL3 & TL4 may be insignificant. To the
mercenaries on the ground, it is *quite* a difference. 

Also, given the benefit of a few extra TLs of knowledge, you can do
some amazing things at the low TLs. I and a friend once drove a GM
nuts. He'd dropped "us" complete with our knowledge into a fantasy
medieval world. In short order we were raking in lots of cash with
things buildable with our knowledge, but that TLs tools. Even with
medieval "chemistry", things like nerve gas are possible, if you know
some *real* chemistry. 

I strongly suspect that some players with a pocket computer containing
the imperial encyclopedia and some reference works could make
themselves indispensible on a low TL worldm. And with a bit of luck, 
make it low like "native" breakthroughs.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2532
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2527) Nanotechnology in MT
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 91 21:02:22 EDT

> why MegaTraveller doesn't touch upon nanotechnology? About the
> closest I've seen is;

	DGP's upcoming "Robots and Cyborgs" supposly discuss nanotech
quite a bit, though I don't know when it's coming out.
	


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2533
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1991 21:32 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Arnie rules supp for Trav


A while ago some one aske about adapting MTrav for Schwartzenegger fliks

T-150 Terminator

RobotID:	PseudoBio WarBot Cr 495,174
Hull:		(1/2) (30/75) Disp=.019, Config=PseudoBio, Armor=14G
		Loaded=352kg
Power:		(1/2) FuelCell=120Kw, Dur=3day (Power Interface to
		electrolysise water for fuel
)
Loco:		(1/2) Legs=2, Road=257, Off=205
Comm:		Voder
Sensors:	Visual+IR+LI+Tele*2, Audio+extraSensitive*2, Olfactory
		Touch
Off/Def:	-
Control:	BrainCPU, Lin=72, Parallel=12, Synap=3, Store=91, High
		Autonomous, Full Cmd, Extensive ECM,
Skills:		General Weapon Handling-4, Gunnery-4, General Vehicle-4
		Tactics-2, Close Combat-4, Hunting-4 Recon-1, Security-1
		Interrogation-2, Forensic-2, Survival-1, Medicsl-2,
		Navigator-1, Mechanical-2, Electronic-2, Engineer-2
		Emotion simulation(?)
Other:		Fuel=13.8 liter, Heavy Robot Arm*2, Head=10liter,
		UPP=R9xA9x, (R=122)

The T-150 (oops TL15) has a very bad emotion simulation program which tends
to get laughs.  The best Warbot I can think of is one that makes you laugh...

Refs:  Be supplied with bad one liners if you use the above.

Seriously, on the subjct of pseudo biological bots:  I think that the rule
that you multiply the whole unit by eight in terms of cost and 1.5 in terms of
weight is a bit much.  In the above I have done so only for the componants
which make the robot appear human:  Chassis, Head, Arms, Legs, Transmission
Eyes, Voder.  Why should a powerplant (that is not exposed anyway) cost and
weigh more?  Olfactory sensor?  not exposed.  Auditory? ditto.
	Perhaps the brain should be more complex, as it has to mimic humans
more closely, but that should show up in the brain construction rules.
and why should a pseudo bio's skill programs cost eight times that of another
robot.  If you've got emotion simulation, you've got it right?

	If you disagree with the above then the cost and weight are higher:
Cr=3,190,524 wt=393kg

Yes, I liked Terminator 2

Scotto

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2534
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1991 21:44 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Planet invasions, assinations, cabbages and kings


I did a little adding early this morning.

You want to kill Lucan?  Easy.

Take 1 Kl of lead (13.5tons) take a scoutship (2G) jump into capital a long
way out.  Accelerate toward capital till you hit 1/10 speed of light
(15 days or so) and dump the lead block overboard so that it will impact
close to or ontop of the grav palace.  (preferably at night so he will
be sleeping there for security or maybe when he's holding court)

The lead will have no emmisions, a low radar cross section, and will be in
detection range for a VERY short period of time.

At .1c the lead will have  the equivalent energy of 1.3GIGATONS of TNT.

One dead nasty emporor...

Planetary invasion forces that aren't so choosy about what they find can use
the same tactic.

On another subject, I am curious.  Has anyone ever used the K'kree module
successfully?  I got it a long time ago and it seems basically unplayable
too much complex stuff.  Maybe as a NPC, but not as a PC.

I wonder if anyone tried and what luck they had.  I have the same 
question for the Hiver module.  I can see them as NPC's but not PC's
(Sorry Steve)  But I haven't seen the player who could pull it off
convincingly.  I wouldn't even know how to ref a Hiver or K'kree PC.

Soooooo

What luck have you folks had?

Asker of silly questions,

Mr. Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2535
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1991 22:11 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Computer size


The reason I asked about computers is this:

Basically, a starship has 3 computers running in parallel.  Each one
checks the answers provided by the other two.  If one disagrees with the 
other two, the two out vote the errant one and it is noted.

If one computer is consistantly giving wrong answers it is shut down and
says FIX ME!!!

So, If the volume of a computer is actually the work station volume, then
in a starship case it shouls only be 1/3 of that.  And a car with computer
aided control should have less volume because it doesn't have a work
station right?

Where am I coming from and why am I babbling so:

Right now, a TL5 car with no computer and a top speed of 100kph
will perform the same as a TL8 computer with a model 0 at a top
speed of 100kph.  As far as I can see there is no difference that the 
rules will generate.  Actually a TL8 car with anti-lock braking smart
suspension etc will perform much better (I would guess anyway)
What I am looking for is a small computer that would be usable in a small
vehicle to get just a lousy +1 in difficulty rolls that doesn't require
the Cr 900,000 model 1 computer!  Right?

So all you vehicle theory guys, what do you say?

Somebody mentioned the problem of vehicle maintainance and Tech levels.
	Well, The problem as I see it manifested in today's cars as
opposed to cars of the 60's is one of engineering design.
In the 60's gas was cheap.  You want a fast car:  Put in a BIG engine.
90's: You want a fast car:  Reduce weight, smaller chassis, higher
RPM engine...

Now you want to fix em:  OK the 60's car is so big you can crawl inside
the hood (bonnet for you brits).  Lots of space!  you can see everything

90's car?  You want to change the oil?  Well we'll have to drop the
engine to get at the oil drain pan and.....

Get the picture?  The more constraints there are on a design the harder
it will be to fix.  As to the problem of 100 year old reliable design
that everyone knows how to fix, that again is just bad engineering.
during the 100 years mechanics had to figure out how to change everything
into an easily maintainable form.  If the designers had done a proper
job, they would have thought of all the maintainance problems before the
vehicle ever hit the market.

Unfortunately, trav designs are a volume critical process.  There are almost
no designs that have space left over.  It all gets called the cargo bay
or in some cases the fuel tank.  That means that there is ZERO room left for
a mechanic to crawl around in an engine compartment.

Does any of this make sence?

Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2536
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1991 03:36 EST
From: "Alvin M. Chan" <CHAN93%SNYBUFVA.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: arnie as T15

>Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1991 21:32 CDT
>From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
>Subject: (2533) Arnie rules supp for Trav
>
>
>T-150 Terminator
>
>RobotID:       PseudoBio WarBot Cr 495,174
>Hull:          (1/2) (30/75) Disp=.019, Config=PseudoBio, Armor=14G
>               Loaded=352kg
>Power:         (1/2) FuelCell=120Kw, Dur=3day (Power Interface to
>               electrolysise water for fuel
)
etc etc deleted...

not to be picky or anything, but in terminator 2, didnt the arnie character
say that his lifespan was 150 years?  i wonder what sort of powerplant
that couldbe in that body volume...unless it did recharge itself periodically
with H2O.. i dunno..justwondering
                                                        - Alv

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2537
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Missing TML Digest?
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 8:58:12 PDT

Hey gang,

I just got back from 4 glorious, sun-burnt days in the Mosquito-infested
Cascades, sat down to read my mail, and discovered that my TML Digests
go from 2515-2516 to 2525-2527.  What happened to messages 2517-2524?

[I resent Mark the missing digest.  Did anyone else miss it? We had some
interesting power outages and disk pack failures over the 4th of July
company shutdown -- James]

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2538
From: richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: The MT Computer Game
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 8:32:48 PDT

Tried to play a little "Zhodani Conspiracy" last night.  The game
kept "disapearring" all of my pilot's possessions and attributes.
Do you suppose my hacking of the character data file has anything to
do with it?  :=)

Enjoyable game even so.  Maybe now that I understand it, I'll try it
legit....nah.

I can't guarantee the format is the same for different hosts, but it
is likely to be.  If anyone wants to know the secret to some of the
numbers in the character file, let me know.  I'll mail, or post if
there is enough interest.  I don't have possessions yet, but do have
locations for characterstics, TAS, service, rank, and credits.  

{Note to *real* computer types:  I know it's easy for you guys to
figure this stuff out.  Just cut us _users_ a little slack for
ocassional intelligence, pleaaaze.  :=)}
- - -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO PURCHASERS: The Entire Physical Universe,
Including This Product, May One Day Collapse Back into an 
Infinitesimally Small Space. Should Another Universe Subsequently
Re-emerge, the Existence of This Product in That Universe Cannot
Be Guaranteed.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2539
Date: Mon,  8 Jul 91 12:14:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (2535) Computer size

:) That's funny, I was thinking about compaction problems a few days
ago... I thought of these fighters aboard a carrier that essentially
came apart so that they could be worked on, and then thought of how the
latching would work.

Then I thought of new weapons designed to make ships come apart, like
launching little robots to unlatch the sucker... :>

Bigger ships will probably need about 1/5 of machinery space for
maintenance, and that will still mean most machinery will be
inaccessable, just that the space allows blocks to be pulled out.
Modularism is likely, with each piece of equipment in a frame to hold it
in place, then linked to whatever else.

Wiring, piping, and so forth is probably going to be a REAL bitch and a
half, even WITH computers, and computers will probably need a fair
portion devoted to maintenance.

Oh, by the by, I asked a little while ago about ship design graphics and
graphics sites... will someone please answer?

- - -Me
[Pooh Bear incarnate.]

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2540
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1991 13:34 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Planetary invasions

LARGE SCALE WARFARE IN IMPERIUM:

Dean assumes a TL15 invasion although no presumption of defending TL 
is made. A TL 15 defending force can have some of the same options as the 
attacker, they can be where the "defenders are not" by using black globes to 
mask their prescence. Also since deep site mesons can basically fire in ANY 
direction from their site it can be practically impossible to pin the general 
location of the site especially if the planet has moons with their own meson 
guns. Since sensors are fairly cheap they can be redundantly placed with only 
a small fraction active at any given time. While the former approach requires 
atleast TL15, the later just requires the technology to build meson guns
TL-11. Communication lines can be land lines protected against detection and
radiation effects. There can be multiple back-up systems to allow continuous
flow of information.

Lets also be careful of the densitometer's capabilities. Most worlds can have
or even "set-up" fake meson-gun sites by setting up large mineral deposits
with high metallic content. Since meson guns are quite lethal even at low
numbers the tonnage of these 'deposits' can be highly variable. I am not 
certain whether the depth of a site is solely a function of the densitometer 
capabilities. Depth may be more a function of protection from more 
conventional weapons, in which case the site may be much closer to the 
surface making an attacker's job harder since most metallic deposits would 
be fairly close to the surface and let us not forget the forged metallic
cities of the future. Some of these cities could run quite deep beneath the
surface of the planet, raising some tough ethical questions for the attacker.
Especially if the defender did intentionally put a meson site under the city.

In any case, every wrong guess means atleast one dead spinal mount armed
ship which can wipe out a fleet eventually. I also think that the initial 
attack will be the best place for ground pounders. 

My scenario is that the fleet moves in at full strength destroys as much
of the defense as it can, inserts troops and then the major ships pull
back leaving as Dean said, the fighters and the "smaller" craft to slug it.
If the attacker fails to win orbital superiority then all is lost for them,
but the defender even if defeated can silo and husband their craft for later
use in vital tactical superiority missions. ftrs as no large ships will be
be in combat range. Their hardened silos may have little to fear from the big
ships but they could still be bombed by attacking fighters. Similarly if the 
attacking small craft win they will also have to withdraw otherwise they will
be wiped out by planetary defenses. 

So they'll withdraw returning only to provide tactical support to ground troops
The tanks and the troops will have to quickly start occupying cities to protect
themselves and then find these meson sites with the "Low Power Densitometers" 
ASAP.

The main point being that until those sites are found the attacker's
victory is not assured and those sites may not be all found out for a long
period of time. And they will not be found without overwhelming "ground
forces". 

While the hi-tech sensors in MT make it very hard to surprise a well
defended site, it does not make it any easier to find guerrillas. In a large
urban sprawl it may be impossible to distinguish or find them. The rapid
response force while a good idea has no real edge. Most guerrillas in the
modern age rarely use any kind of mechanical vehicles, hard to understand 
why they might want to in the future considering it is so obvious. Especially
grav units of any kind as they are immediately detectable by densitometers.

How would the sensor perimeter prevent the guerrillas from leaving armed?
Neural Activity Sensors work only at fairly short range and most hand weapons
require little or no power, and even batteries may be hard to detect.
Consider a hi-tech guerrilla force in Combat Environment Suits with helmets
including psionic shields carrying non-metallic ACRs. In a jungle or in a
urban situation very hard to find. If they bury their guns they can come back 
for them later. Again this is not very hi-tech stuff only TL-12 at most and
most of it is much lower.

Guerrillas job will be harder in attacking valuable strategic targets but
the opposing force' job in finding them will not become easier.

A high-population hi-tech world can be very hard to capture and control. The 
best way may be kidnap a portion of the population from all over the world 
and of all walks of life and hold them hostage to force compliance of the
people until a sufficiently large garrison force is available.

Ameer

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2541
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Re: Nanotech
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 91 12:23:01 MET DST

> From: tnc!m0068@uunet.UU.NET (Stephen D Smith)
> Subject: (2527) Nanotechnology in MT
> 
>     Here's a general question for all of the TML. Is there a reason
> why MegaTraveller doesn't touch upon nanotechnology?

  Traveller is a game ("He said it!" "Heresy on the TML!" "To the stake!":)
and more or less integral to the enjoyment of an RPG is the ability for the
players to identify with the characters somewhat. Besides from that nanotech
wasn't even theoretically invented when the basic assumptions of traveller were
set down, a nanotech society would probably be too alien to identify with.

> closest I've seen is;
>     2) the even more shadowy references to the advanced technology
> that the Droyne "Grandfather" uses.

  I have used a nanotech device in an adventure involving ancients. The players
got mightily confused when they found a pool of what looked like mercury that
radiated neutrinos. The got even more confused when they bottled a part of it
and it continued to radiate neutrinos:)

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2542
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 10:31:36 EDT
From: guam!kominetz@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.COM (John Kominetz, 3.0)
Subject: Terminator

[New subject line and forwarded to the list -- James]

    Like everyone else that saw the movies, I am working on my on CD-101.
Although I am not ready to publish it yet, I have a few comments on the
design that was already presented.

    The 101 is not a psuedo-bio robot, it is contoured.  They function without
their camoflauge (aka skin.)  They are polished (to act as reflec, since laser
and plasma weapons seem to be the rage in 2029 LA) and heavily armored.  They
have a small, low-power primary power source, and a reserve battery.  There is
no evidence that they are particularly fast on foot, and are probably not much
faster than a human (TOP=30 kph).

    The greatest problem in designing these things is the power plant.  There
are no nuclear batteries in MT, which makes it hard to simulate their power
supply.  There is no evidence of fuel outside the power plant itself, and the
plant is small enough to miss when being impaled by a T-1000.

    I noticed that the design presented mixes the MT vehicle construction with
the brain rules from Robots (Book 8).  Anybody have a timetable for the next
Robots-like release and have there been any interesting articles anywhere on
using old-style robots in MT?

    kominetz
    (disclaimer:  I am not a Commodore.)


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2543
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1991 14:58 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Planetary invasions and other things


This is in response to several notes on a lot of topics:

First Scott Kellog's sub is a great idea. And I will grant him that
very few starships have sonar. But generally a sonar will not be
needed. A meson armed submarine could be detected by several armored
drones carrying densitometers and a maser, even at 5km depth. Which
incidently is very rare. Most modern subs have problems getting a mile
deep and part of the problem is that there are just not that many places 
that are even close to being that deep. Geothermal sites would be picked
up by a Passive IR detector and could be targetted just as a matter of 
course with nuclear missiles. If you try to stop them you are found.
If you don't then your crew is probably toast.  

Somebody else pointed out that you could get a seismic shock pattern
reading from explosives. The question being what range you need to
be at from the surface(and the meson gun) while you are doing these
tests. Secondly wouldn't you pick up several false readings. There
could be a variety of metallic objects underground.... Lastly a LADAR
scan would be hampered by first the atmospheric conditions and secondly
its narrow beam. The seismic pattern reading can be done but not from 
ship but from troops  on surface which would somehow have to be landed. 
Once the troops, who are more expendable than ships, locate a meson gun
site for certain then capital ships could move in and knock it out. 

Bertil Jonell's Battle for Naasakiira:

Nice set-up. However the Aenoegrr class cruisers had major design
problems. Built using High Guard they did not fit. As I recall after
the Spinal-E was inserted, there was only enough place for a powerplant
and fuel. No space for crew, jump or M-drives or dampers. Same problem
with Oegveng class gunned corvettes. Perhaps the reason your 5000t SDBs
died was because they were the only ones built by rules. I don't believe
that if a ship is impossible by High Guard standards that it would be
possible with MT starship generation system. Still I would like to see a
<10,000 t ship with Spinal Mt (any kind) and a reasonable jump and  maneuver 
drives and Dampers and Screens. Most examples I have seen are basically
battle-riders. 

As a side note on Battleship vs BattleTender question. I always thought
bringing 8 spinal mts to battle was always superior to bringing 2 or 3 even
if the other side ended up with 30-40% greater tonnage and better
"survivability" through jump drive availability. 























------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2544
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Oops!! Never mind...
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 12:54:43 PDT

That's what I get for jumping to conclusions.  The missing TML Digest
just arrived (way out of sequence).  Mia culpa.  Color me embarrassed.

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2545
Date:     Mon, 8 Jul 91 16:38:43 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Origins and Things


I am afraid I fell down on the job slightly and missed the Saturday
Traveller seminar at Origins.  If anyone who was there would like to upload
a brief discussion of what went on, please do.  Marc Miller said afterwards
that there wasn't much of importance discussed...

I did spend quite a bit of time talking to Tom Peters of DGP during the
convention, who was sympathetic to what I think of as 'our viewpoint'--
leaning in the direction of introducing as few bizarre technological
results as possible in the course of making a playable game.  The following
answers are not official, of course, and I'll make a few remarks below about
his recommendations to those of us concerned about these things.

Gravitics:  Inertial compensators have no particularly good explanation,
  but the idea that they are doing whatever they do through more applications
  of gravitics as opposed to some other force is probably correct.  Thrusters
  are just grav drives that work beyond gravity, not some special new force
  that 'really' works on the volume of the ship, so my scheme of calculating
  accelerations at 650tons per thrust unit is probably good.  Despite mention
  of a '6-G barrier' to grav acceleration, this is probably more of a design
  trade-off barrier than a physical limitation to grav performance.

Streamlining:  Take the Fugate comment in the Question and Answer section
  of MTJ#2 with a grain of salt regarding streamlining.  Apparently Mr. F
  has a tendency to 'shoot from the hip' on these answers, and we shouldn't
  rewrite 'Traveller Physics t.m.' to account for his answers.  While pushing
  a USL hull through a gas giant atmosphere would be a bad idea, there is no
  real reason that you couldn't land one (very slowly) on a typical inhabitable
  planet.  Airframe hulls don't provide lift, although there is room for a
  small rule expansion to include lifting hulls (or wings).

Tom Peters suggests that we send letters to Joe Fugate about these sorts of
things cropping up in the Q&A section--for example, in this issue there was an
answer to a question about 'low signature' for Gauss rifles, which included a
note about it being possible 'if the bullet reached supersonic velocity' in the
gun barrel.  Except for rocket projectiles, I know of no bullets which accel-
erate beyond the gun barrel...Joe is apparently a computer programmer by trade.

I went ahead and handed out our email information in various places, telling 
the Traveller 'pros' that we would be all too happy to help them avoid these
sorts of problems in the future, and otherwise volunteering the use of our
compiled expertise.

Is there anyone out there with a very capable computer who could port the
daily list to GEnie email to send to the DGP and GDW people?  I could theor-
etically do it, but it would involve downloads and uploads with a 300 baud
modem and transfer through a capture buffer of only 18K, which is a problem
for the bigger mailings.  Wilson?  

A lot of Traveller books moved through the auction.  As a result of buying a
few things that I was missing as part of larger lots, I now have spare copies
of Double Adventures 1-3 and Gamelord's Desert Environment supplement.  These
are basically 'free to a good home', so contact me by email if you have a
real _need_ for them.  Didn't Metlay recommend DA3 for beginners?

Reprints:  DGP plans to reprint the World Builders Handbook as soon as the
AI project has recouped enough money to pay for the print run, hopefully by 
the end of the year at the latest.  So those of you without a copy should be
patient.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2546
Date:         Mon, 08 Jul 91 16:27:17 CDT
From: Brian Larkin <UC559687@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Starports

Fellow MT junkies --


  After spending some time over the July 4th weekend at Lambert Field
in St. Louis, I got to thinking what a class A or B starport in the
universe of MT would look like.  I came up with the following kinds of
questions.

o   What kind of facilites are there?  Obviously there are those that
    are stated in the various manuals (construction and repair
    facilities) and hotels and restaraunts.  What else?

o   What kind of people services would there be?  Obvious things such
    as hotels, restaraunts and bars, what else?  How many?

o   What kind of ships would one be expected to see?  A lot of real
    small free trader type ships, or major ships with just smattering
    of smaller ones....

o   What kind of facilities would exist for the small starship
    captain?  Would each ship be awarded a gate to a concourse?  Or
    would they have to park out in a general landing field and walk or
    ride to the facilities in the starport, sort of like how some
    yacht clubs have their boats just anchored out in the water, and
    you need a dinghy to reach the shore.

o   If a smaller ship captain were denied councourse access, I suppose
    that it would mean that these facilities did not exist or were
    being used by larger (more regular) ships?  Are there many people
    transport lines available?  Is space travel more like air travel
    today except longer, or more like ocean-going travel in the past?
    (i.e.  More cargo and less passengers)

o   What approximate size would the average class A or B starport be?
    Both orbital and land-based?  For orbitals, approximate tonnage?
    Also, would it be advantageous for these orbital stations to be
    maneuverable?  I mean more than occasional manuevering to maintain
    orbit, more like changing from a low to high orbit or vice-versa.
    For land-based starports would the size of the starport be
    comparable to small city?  What would be its population?

o   Who would control the starport?  Would it be under the jurisdiction
    of the local government or the imperium, or ruling subsector?  Who
    would be responsible for the investigation of crimes in a
    starport?



    Well, thats about enough questions for now.  I never thought that
    this subject was discussed in great enough detail in the original
    game, and has not been expounded upon in the revised editions
    either.  Any opinions are welcome.

    -- Toucan

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2547
Date:         Mon, 08 Jul 91 23:04:22 CDT
From: Brian Larkin <UC559687@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Ship Design



  In the MT Ref's Manual it lists the power consumption rates for Manuever
Drives and Weapons in terms of what?  Mw?  Kw?  Watts?  I designed a real
cool 500 ton Pirate ship only to discover that it required over 800,000
watts of power!!!!  I immediately thought the computer had screwed up the
number...  (People never screw up, it's those damn computers!)

 If it were Kw, it would make more sense in places, of course a single watt
to launch a missle does not seem right.

Ex.  500 ton ship Manuever 3g = 40 thruster units at 70 Mw of power per
     thruster = 2800 Mw...  Now a tech level 15 power plant produces 6 Mwatts
     of power for every Kliter.  That leave us with 466 Kl or 34 tons...


     Now wait a minute..........

     Never mind I see.....   Problem in my calcs.   Multiplying by kl of
     manuever drive instead of thruster unit...   Whew.  I didn't think
     that 37,000 Mw would be necessary to push a 500 ton ship at 3g!

   Sorry for wasting your time....!!!


- - -- Toucan

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2548
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: link between net and GEnie
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 3:30:46 EDT

> Is there anyone out there with a very capable computer who could port the
> daily list to GEnie email to send to the DGP and GDW people?  I could theor-
> etically do it, but it would involve downloads and uploads with a 300 baud
> modem and transfer through a capture buffer of only 18K, which is a problem
> for the bigger mailings.  Wilson?  

	Well, there are a few problems with this idea. I do have the
computers that can handle things like this . (Mac IIfx, with 9600 baud modem
to name one.) But the problem lies on the traffic generated from this. 
First of all, DGP is devoting all their resources to AI project these days.
I don't think Joe (Fugate) login on GEnie daily anymore. It's more like
once every two three days. And In two to three days, about 10-15 messages
are generated. I don't really think Joe would have time to keep up with 
the traffic. The same goes for GDW, actually, the problem is probably
worse with GDW. Loren Wisemen and Julia are the only two I know/talk
regularly there. Loren has his hands full with Twilight 2000, Merc 2000,
plus the upcoming projects. Julia has her hands full with the Challenge 
magazine. I doubt they could keep up with the traffic, not to mention
neither of them are really traveller experts anyway. I don't know how often
Marc checks in, but I haven't seen posts from him in a long time. Also,
in doing this, that might generate the same conflict between us and DGP that
occured with HIWG and DGP, which I really don't want to go into detail.

Now Rob, don't get me wrong. I do think it's a great idea, but I just don't
think it will work in practice. 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2549
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1991 09:16 EDT
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Richard Johnson's Disclaimer

>IMPORTANT NOTICE TO PURCHASERS: The Entire Physical Universe,
>Including This Product, May One Day Collapse Back into an
>Infinitesimally Small Space. Should Another Universe Subsequently
>Re-emerge, the Existence of This Product in That Universe Cannot
>Be Guaranteed.

However, in the case that said Universe does Re-emerge, the Lisense Rights to
This Product still belongs to the Copyright Holder.

:-) :-)

Rob Miracle

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Jul 10 21:00:22 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #208: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2550  09-Jul-91 Rob Miracle       Re: Starports << >o What kind of facilites ar
2551  09-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Planetary invasions and other things << >
2552  09-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Terminators in Trav << OK OK OK OK OK OK OK? 
2553  09-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Vargr Ships & Vehicles at Naasakiira << Here 
2554  09-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Agility << How could I have forgotten? Among 
2555  09-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Planetary Invasions Revisited << I'm compilin
2556  09-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2531) Planetary invasions, Tech "smuggli
2557  09-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2535) Computer size, <and Component Volu
2558  09-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Cargo transport modifications << Hi A few day
2559  09-Jul-91 Carl Fago         Re: Submarines & TML to GEnie? << First: > Da
2560  09-Jul-91 James T Perkins   Re: TML to GEnie? << Carl Fago <carlf@agora.r

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2550
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1991 10:15 EDT
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Starports

>o   What kind of facilites are there?  Obviously there are those that
>    are stated in the various manuals (construction and repair
>    facilities) and hotels and restaraunts.  What else?
>

Brian, this spawns a suggestion more than a response to your querys.  Why don't
we spend some time and post some of the facilities that we have created.  This
is the kind of shareing that makes this list great!  They could then be
archived at the FTP site for later grabbing!.

Since I shot off my mouth about posting stuff, here I go :-)

What follows is a description of a dining and entertainment facility that my
wife and I created for Traveller moons ago.  It is the ONLY bit of role playing
I have ever gotten out of her (Sherry is president of WADD, Wives Aginst D & D).
It is appropriatly named after her.

- - --

Shea Sherree's -- Fine Dining and Entertainment at Class A and B StarPorts.

Shea Sherree's is chain of Elegant Dining facilties that have been spreading
throughout the sector.  Upon entering Shea Sherree's, guests are greeted by a
coat/hat/weapon check person.  This person is very polite and asks that all
weapons be checked.  All customers then pass through an elaborate weapons
sensor.  Should someone attempt to sneak a weapon in, a large muscular Host
will see them out.

After passing through the sensor and surviving Guido, the guests are then asked
if they are there for Dining, Dancing, or Refreshments.  The Motif is that of a
Terran 1890's era establisment.  Real Brass and Glass are used for the decore
(expensive, that is why weapons and fighting are not tolerated).

The typical Shea Sherree's is a two story facility.  The dining area is laced
with local plants and is located on the lower level.  Large stained and etched
glass windows look out on the StarPort Mall.  Usually live dinner music is
provided.  The tables are all heavy wood and finely carved.  Upon being seated,
the server hands each guest a hand held computer and stylus.  They select the
meal that they want and the delay before it arrives as well as any drinks,
including special orders.  This information is then sent to the kitchen/bar for
processing.  At the time orders are place, the Credit/ID card is scanned for
billing purposes.

Also on the lower level is the bar/lounge.  This is your typical bar.  Behind
the bar is a large etched mirror, that if it gets broken will cost some one on
the order of 10Kcr.  The wooden tables are supported by polished brass columns.
This lounge is the pass thru area to the twin spiral brass staircases that lead
up to the club.  Also, clear, gas powered elevators travel between the floors.

The Club itself is a modern, high-tech club.  Almost every imaginable high-tech
gizmo is present.  Holographic video displays bring the music to life.  When
a band isn't playing, and videos are running, it is like having the band there
in person.  The floor even supports Gravity control for those Zero-G dances.
The sound insulation between floors is amazing, the lower level is very quiet
compared to the loud volume of the upper floor.

This is a sketchy description, but I hope it helps spawn some others to post
other StarPort facilities.

Rob Miracle

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2551
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Re: Planetary invasions and other things
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 18:27:35 MET DST

> From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
> Subject: (2543) Planetary invasions and other things
> 
> Nice set-up. However the Aenoegrr class cruisers had major design
> problems. Built using High Guard they did not fit. As I recall after
> the Spinal-E was inserted, there was only enough place for a powerplant
> and fuel. No space for crew, jump or M-drives or dampers. Same problem
> with Oegveng class gunned corvettes.

  All ships involved were redone for MegaT using some of Rob Deans first 
suggestions (It was played around last yule) namely not including the hull CP,
reduced gunners and bridge crew, but using the old agility rules (I even
calculated the agility for the vehicles involved in the same way:).
  
  The weapons the vehicles were equipped with were designed using Striker 
(that's why there are such things as 48MW 16lense-pulse lasers even though the
 concept of lenses is just mentioned in passing in COACC. Spaceship armaments
 are straight from MegaT, except the PCs last invention: They charged the jump
 drive for a jump 1. Then they dumped the energy from the crystals using the
 emergency dump system. That system heats the hydrogene from the fueltanks 
 using the energy in the jump crystals and expels it from the ship. They used
 this as the largest blowtorch in Corridor against some of the vargr ground
 forces:)

  On to the Aenoegrr 'cruiser' (I guess strike cruiser sounded more charismatic
than 'meson gun destroyer':) Here's some parts of the design spreadsheet:

TL13		Power		Volume		Mass		Price
Hull 7000t 			94500,00        2100,00 	9400,00
ArmorF43
Config2AF
Total:				94500,00        23805,60        901648,00

PowerPlant:     
Fusion13 	31770,00        3530,00	 	10590,00        706000,00
BoosterPlant:
Fusion13	224100,00       24900,00        74700,00        4980000,00
Total:		255870,00       -28430,00       85290,00        5686000,00

Loco:
Jump 2          		2835,00		5670,00 	630000,00
JumpFuel        		14175,00        99,23           283140,00
Manuever 2      31145,40        5662,80 	14157,00        311454,00
Avionics13      0,02    	0,20    	0,10    	15,00
Total:         -31145,42       -22673,00        19926,33        941469,00

  [Hmm, seems like I used the Rob's first anti-grav suggestion too, because 
 that don't look like a standard manuever drive..]

Armaments:                           
SpinalMesonE    175000,00       15000,00        3000,00 	800000,00
30x2FG-12       30000,00        810,00  	150,00  	120000,00 
30x3M-13        90,00   	405,00  	60,00   	67500,00
NukeDamper3     7500,00 	270,00  	300,00  	45000,00
MesonSC-3       4252,50 	610,00  	460,00  	55000,00
Total:         -216842,50      -17743,00        3970,00 	1087500,00

  [I used the revised figures for the power consumption of meson screens]

  Fuel was provided for 30 days for the normal plant and 24hrs for the 
booster.

> I don't believe
> that if a ship is impossible by High Guard standards that it would be
> possible with MT starship generation system.

  Since HighGuard has jumpfuel equal to 10% of ships volume per jump number and
MegaT uses jumpfuel equal to the jumpnumber plus one times 5% it is quite easy
to do a ship with enough fuel to do 2 jump 6 without refuling. This would
have taken 120% of the ships volume just for fuel in HighGuard, while in MegaT
it just takes 70% of the ship for enough fuel.

  Add to this the booster power plant idea and the practice of not providing
lifesupport for the entire hull etc, and the MegaT designs with have strayed
quite far from their HighGuard forefathers.

> Still I would like to see a
> <10,000 t ship with Spinal Mt (any kind) and a reasonable jump and  maneuver 
> drives and Dampers and Screens. Most examples I have seen are basically
> battle-riders. 

  I'm posting the full MegaT stats for all the ships and vehicles involved
in the fight (excpet the DE and those pesky SDBs, I think I've posted the DE
sometime before and I still haven't found the SDBs, talk about ship vaporized:)
 
- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"I bet there is a clause that says that the insurance is invalid if mutant 
 space-mutts drops nukes on you." PC after the Battle of Naasakiira

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2552
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1991 11:32 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Terminators in Trav

OK
OK
OK
OK
OK
OK
OK?

The Terminator design was a joke!  (Get it? Boy you guys are serious)

But seriously.  I more or less designed THAT ROBOT as a contoured one
That's how I violated the upper max on armor values for PseudoBio robots
As to the speed limits, that was the artifact of the power to weight
ratio of the design using legs.

As to the 150 years duration... Well, there aient no power plant that can do
it without going into ultratechnology.  I tried to put in a fusion plant,
but it just wouldn't fit.  (Plus he probably would have had a road speed
in the supersonic range...)

But seriously, The T-150 (or was it the CD-101)  I only saw the movie once,
and my memory for trivia has a smaller capacity than Arnie's acting ability

anyway the T-150 has a minor problem with its visual sensors:  The Light
intensifiying circuitry tends to overload occasionally, It is therefore
advisable to equip your units with sunglasses....

I was only kidding
Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2553
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Vargr Ships & Vehicles at Naasakiira
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 19:16:58 MET DST

  Here it is, the ships and vehicles of the 'Hammer of Glory' <translated> 
corsair band, nominally allied to the Glory of Taerz..(which I never remembers 
how to spell:(
  
  Of note is that most turrets of the Goerrghkfae assault transports had been
dismounted to replace damaged turrets from some ships of the Destiny Alliance.

  I've adopted a typing system where I add (V) after the normal ship type,
instead of using a 'V' and some other letter. This is because I felt that it 
was more important to know what a ship can do, than knowing if the owner got
a tail or not.

VARGR STRIKE CRUISER
CraftID:Aenoegrr class Vargr Strike Cruiser, Type CS(V), TL13, MCr 7,801.875
Hull:	95000/25000, Disp=7000, Config=2AF, Armor=43F, Unloaded=143598tons, 
	Loaded=146092tons
Power:	7000/14000+54000/100000, Fusion=31770MW+243270MW booster, 
	Duration=30/90+24h booster
Loco:	8100/16000, Manuever=2, 67/90, Jump=2, NOE=170, Cruise=1431, Top=1908, 
	Agility=0+1
Commo:	Radio=2 x System, Laser=System, Maser=FarOrbit
Sensors:EMMask, PassiveEMS=Interstellar, ActiveEMS=FarOrbit,
	Densitometer=HiPen/100m, Neutrino=100kW, ActObjScan=Routine, 
	ActObjPin=Routine, PasObjScan=Difficult, PasObjPin=Difficult, 
	PasEngScan=Routine, PasEngPin=Difficult
Off:	MesonGun=E0x, Batt=1, Bear=1, FusionGun=x08, Batt=3, Bear=3, 
	Missiles=x06, Batt=5, Bear=5, w/ 72 battery rds
Def:	DefDM=+7/+8, Nuclear Damper-3, Meson Screen-3
Control:Computer=7fibx3, Panel=Holodynamic link x 3626, Special=HoloHUD x 52, 
	LargeHoloDisplay x 1, Environ= basic env, basic ls, extended ls, 
	grav plates, inertial comp, AirLocks=10
Accomm:	Crew=7 x 17 (Bridge=12, Engineers=35, Gunnery=54, Command=16, 
	Stewards=4, Medic=2), SmallStaterooms=70
Other:	Cargo=1279kl, Fuel=30126kl (12708M+3243B+14175J), Scoops, 
	ObjSize=Large, EMLevel=Faint+Moderate

   The Aenoegrr so-called "Strike Cruiser" is an old Vargr design originally 
developed by a planetary navy in the Julian Protectorate but now common in 
large parts of the Extents as far spinward as Provence Sector. It is a light 
warship that forms the mainstay of several corsair bands and serves in escort 
duties in system navies. Its popularity with corsairs is probably because of 
the spinal Meson-E gun. A meson gun has always been considered as a very 
"charismatic" weapon among corsairs and it is especially usefull as orbital 
artillery in support of ground forces. Among the battles in which ships of 
Aenoegrr class have participated is the infamous Dynam Depot debacle.
Currently, ships of the Aenoegrr class are very common in the conquered parts 
of Spinward Marches, Deneb, Vland, Lishun and Antares and especially Corridor.
(Converted from HighGuard stats. Originally from Travellers Digest 7. "The 
 Fourth Imperium")


VARGR GUNNED CORVETTE
CraftID:Oegveng class Vargr Gunned Corvette, Type LG(V), TL13, MCr 770.871
Hull:	11000/27000, Disp=800, Config=1AF, Armor=43F, Unloaded=16152tons, 
	Loaded=16570tons
Power:	1500/3100+3900/7900, Fusion=6984MW+17712MW booster, 
	Duration=29/90+24h booster
Loco:	2000/4100, Manuever=4, 430/860, Jump=2, NOE=170, Cruise=2295, Top=3060,
	Agility=0+4
Commo:	Radio=2 x System, Laser=System, Maser=FarOrbit
Sensors:EMMask, PassiveEMS=Interstellar, ActiveEMS=FarOrbit, 
	Densitometer=HiPen/100m, Neutrino=100kW, ActObjScan=Routine, 
	ActObjPin=Routine, PasObjScan=Difficult, PasObjPin=Difficult, 
	PasEngScan=Routine, PasEngPin=Difficult
Off:	PulseLaser=xx6, Batt=1, Bear=1
Def:	DefDM=+8/+12, Nuclear Damper-2
Control:Computer=7fibx3, Panel=Holodynamic link x 140, Special=HoloHUD x 7, 
	Environ= basic env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp, 
	AirLocks=5
Accomm:	Crew=1 x 20 (Bridge=3, Engineers=4, Gunnery=10, Command=2, Medic=1), 
	SmallStaterooms=11
Other:	Cargo=220kl, Fuel=4649kl (2793M+236B+1620J), Scoops, ObjSize=Large, 
	EMLevel=Faint

   The Oegveng class gunned corvette is a Vargr ship of common design, similar 
to at least a hundred different classes of light escorts from the Extents. It 
was ships of this class that were deployed as escort screen for the Aenoegrr 
cruisers at Dynam Depot/Lishun.
The most famous recent battles in which Oegveng class ships have been used are 
the first battle of Naasakiira/Corridor and the hundred day battle between the 
Destiny Alliance and the Depot Security Fleet at Corridor Depot/Corridor.
(Converted from HighGuard stats. Originally from Travellers Digest 7. "The
 Fourth Imperium")


VARGR ASSAULT TRANSPORT
CraftID:Goerrghkfae class Vargr Assault Transport, Type TS(V), TL13, 
	MCr 5,495.614
Hull:	110000/290000, Disp=30000, Config=7USL, Armor=40F, Unloaded=168601tons,
	Loaded=349343tons
Power:	22000/44000, Fusion=98613MW, Duration=30/90
Loco:	14000/28000, Manuever=1, 16000/32000, Jump=2, NOE=170, Cruise=225, 
	Top=300, Agility=0
Commo:	Radio=2 x System, Laser=System, Maser=FarOrbit
Sensors:PassiveEMS=Interstellar, ActiveEMS=FarOrbit, Densitometer=HiPen/100m, 
	Neutrino=100kW, ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine, 
	PasObjScan=Difficult, PasObjPin=Difficult, PasEngScan=Routine, 
	PasEngPin=Difficult
Off:	Missile=x07, Batt=100, Bear=90
Def:	DefDM=+6, SandCaster=xx9, Batt=200, Bear=180, Nuclear Damper-3, 
	Meson Screen-3
Control:Computer=7fibx3, Panel=Holodynamic link x 140, Special=HoloHUD x 7, 
	Environ= basic env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp, 
	AirLocks=10, Subcraft=800 x 8 ton
Accomm:	Crew=30 x 3 (Bridge=11, Engineers=27, Gunnery=51, Command=14, 
	Stewards=4, Medic=1), SmallStaterooms=2870, ShipsTroops = 5000, 
	ExtraPassengers=59 (single occupancy)
Other:	Cargo=47956kl, Fuel=100195kl (39445M+60750J), ObjSize=Large, 
	EMLevel=Moderate

   The purpose of the Goerrghkfae class assault transports is to transport a 
full TL13 regiment of 800 fighting vehicles and 5000 troops and deploy it in 
orbit over a hostile world. The configuration enables all crafts to start at
once and descend to the surface under own power while the TS provides counter-
battery fire using its missile turrets. It is a relatively recent design local 
to Provence and saw first action during the invasion of Corridor.


VARGR GVEHOERR APC
CraftID:Gvehoerr APC, TL13, MCr 6.232
Hull:	93/238, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armor=40F, Unloaded=140tons, Loaded=150tons
Power:	30/60, Fusion=135MW, Duration=9/29
Loco:	24/48, StandardGrav=906t, NOE=170, Cruise=2592, Top=3456, MaxAccel=6, 
	Agility=0
Commo:	Radio=Planetary, Laser=Planetary,
Sensors:EMMask, PassiveEMS=VeryDistant, ActiveEMS=Continental, 10 x Headlights,
	AdvancedActiveIR, AdvancedImageEnhance, SyntheticVision, 
	ActObjScan=Difficult, ActObjPin=Difficult, PasEngScan=Formidable
Off:	Hardpoints=1, The RPB-13 is equipped with TL9 Point Defence Fire 
	Control.
	Ammo		Pen/		Max	   Auto	Dngr	Signa-
Weapon	Notes	Rds	Att	Dmg	RangeT	   gts	Space	ture	ROF
RPB-13	-	unl	54/5	20	VDist(7.8) 3	30	Hi	80
5MW Beam Laser  unl	30/3	12	VDist(60)  2    4.5	Lo	40
Def:	10 x Sandcaster, 5 x Smoke
Control:Computer=1 x 2, Panel=Holodynamic link x 54, Environ= basic env, 
	basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
Accomm:	Crew=2 (Commander, Driver), Passengers=10, Seats=Adequate x 12
Other:	Cargo=9kl, Fuel=17.5kl, ObjSize=Average, EMLevel=Faint

  The Gvehoerr is one of a series of almost standardized tech 13 (originally 
tech 11) vargr combat vehicles. The standardization in this case comes from 
the fact that extremely large quantities of 108m3 wedge-shaped hulls became 
available cheeply when a large manufacturer in the Empire of Varroerth 
suddenly went broke in 1002. This opportunity was siezed upon by a local 
governor in the Ngathksirz sector who bought the whole stock, had a number of 
fighting vehicles designed with the hulls as base and successfully fought a 
large-scale seccession from the Empire of Varroerth in his sector, thereby 
gaining great charisma for himself.
   Attributing much of the victory to the vehicles and especially their shape, 
'My tanks looks so <word incorporating all the positive meanings of 'good', 
'bad' and 'charismatic'> that Destiny looks favourably upon them!', the 
governor set out to secceede for himself with an even larger chunk of the 
Empire of Varroerth. Following his death this creation quickly decayed and most
of it was absorbed back into the Empire of Varroerth.
   The fame of the vehicles however, lived on, even though they only have the 
hull in common and new manufacturers all over the Extents have taken up 
producing their own versions of them.


VARGR KNOAE FEDHAEDH ASSAULT SPEEDER
CraftID:Knoae Fedhaedh Assault Speeder, TL13, MCr 15.341
Hull:	133/340, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armor=30F, Unloaded=179tons, 
	Loaded=199tons
Power:	77/154, Fusion=347.4MW, Duration=1/3
Loco:	21/42, StandardGrav=804t, NOE=170, Cruise=1923, Top=2565, MaxAccel=4, 
	Agility=6
Commo:	Radio=Planetary, Laser=Planetary,
Sensors:EMMask, PassiveEMS=VeryDistant, ActiveEMS=Continental, 10 x Headlights,
	AdvancedActiveIR, AdvancedImageEnhance, SyntheticVision, 
	ActObjScan=Difficult, ActObjPin=Difficult, PasEngScan=Formidable
Off:	Hardpoints=1, Rapid Plasma B-13, 16lense 8MW pulse laser, The Pulse 
	Laser is equipped with TL9 Point Defence Fire Control, 20t bay adapted 
	for Air-Surface munitions.
	Ammo		Pen/		Max	   Auto	Dngr	Signa-
Weapon	Notes	Rds	Att	Dmg	RangeT	   gts	Space	ture	ROF
RPB-13  -	unl	54/5	20	VDist(7.8) 3	30	Hi	80
PLaser  -	unl	22/3	8	VDist(10)  8	1.5	Lo	2560
Def:	10 x Sandcaster, 5 x Smoke
Control:Computer=3 x 2, Panel=Holodynamic link x 39, Environ= basic env, 
	basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
Accomm:	Crew=2 (Commander, Pilot), Seats=Roomy x 2
Other:	Fuel=5kl, AirSurfaceMunitions=20kl, ObjSize=Average, EMLevel=Faint

   The purpose of the Knoae Fedhaedh assault speeder is to provide air support 
for ground troops. It is heavily armed for its techlevel mounting a fixed 
forward firing rapid plasma gun B and being able to carry a load of 
air-surface munitions rivalling many aircrafts.
    For defence against ground fire and missiles it relies on it's high agility
and a aft-mounted point defence pulse laser.


VARGR KAGHTSUEN LIGHT COMBAT GRAV TRANSPORT
CraftID:Kaghtsuen Light Combat Grav Transport, TL13, MCr 2.618
Hull:	37/94, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armor=20F, Unloaded=56tons, Loaded=130tons
Power:	15/30, Fusion=34.65MW, Duration=3/9
Loco:	7/14, StandardGrav=262t, NOE=170, Cruise=810, Top=1080, MaxAccel=2, 
	Agility=0
Commo:	Radio=Planetary
Sensors:EMMask, ActiveEMS=VeryDistant, 10 x Headlights, AdvancedActiveIR, 
	AdvancedImageEnhance, ActObjScan=Difficult, ActObjPin=Difficult
Off:	Hardpoints=1, 3barrel 20mm Hypervelocity Autocannon with electric
	mechanism.
	Ammo		Pen/		Max	   Auto	Dngr	Signa-
Weapon	Notes	Rds	Att	Dmg	RangeT	   gts	Space	ture	ROF
20mm 	KEAP	5000	25/4	4	VDist(11)  8    -       Hi      2560
	HEAP	-	18	4	VDist(11)  8	1.5	Hi	2560
	HE	-	5	6	VDist(11)  8    20      Hi	2560
Def:	10 x Sandcaster, 5 x Smoke
Control:Computer=0 x 2, Panel=Holodynamic link x 52, Environ= basic env, 
	basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
Accomm:	Crew=1 (Operator), Seats=Adequate x 1
Other:	Cargo=75kl, Fuel=3kl, ObjSize=Average, EMLevel=Faint

   The Kaghtsuen Light Combat Grav Transport is available in as many 
configurations as there are operators. Each agency that build or use them have 
their own model numbers. Most common are a pure cargo version, various 
versions are equipped for use by the support troops for example mobile 
workshops, kitchens, fuel processing plants, ammo carriers and so on. One 
version is specifically built to be used in conjunction with the Thonghsudh 
artillery vehicle. It carries two modular hoppers of 450 200mm MDHwz rounds 
each that can be loaded into a Thonghsudh in four minutes if the old hopper is 
to be taken care of and less than one if the old hopper is scuttled.


VARGR ROGZ UERRALOR GRAV TANK
CraftID:Rogz Uerralor Grav Tank, TL13, MCr 2.618
        [2.618MCr sounds far too little, and I'm very suspicious when the 
         previous vehicle has exactly the same figure! I'll have to check it]
Hull:	198/207, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armor=50F, Unloaded=298tons, 
	Loaded=299tons
Power:	62/124, Fusion=280.8MW, Duration=3/9
Loco:	48/96, StandardGrav=1798t, NOE=170, Cruise=2592, Top=3456, MaxAccel=6, 
	Agility=0
Commo:	Radio=Planetary
Sensors:EMMask, PassiveEMS=VeryDistant, ActiveEMS=Continental, 10 x Headlights,
	AdvancedActiveIR, AdvancedImageEnhance, SyntheticVision, 
	ActObjScan=Difficult, ActObjPin=Difficult, PasEngScan=Formidable
Off:	Hardpoints=1, Fusion Y-13, 16lense 48MW pulse laser, Pulse Laser has 
	TL11 Point Defence Fire Control.
	Ammo		Pen/		Max	   Auto	Dngr	Signa-
Weapon	Notes	Rds	Att	Dmg	RangeT	   gts	Space	ture	ROF
FY-13	-	unl	71/5	30	VDist(21)  2	45	Hi	40
PLaser 	-	unl	43/4	22	Rgnl(60)   8	15	Lo	2560
Def:	10 x Sandcaster, 5 x Smoke
Control:Computer=1 x 2, Panel=Holodynamic link x 110, Environ= basic env, 
	basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
Accomm:	Crew=3 (Commander, Driver, Gunner), Seats=Roomy x 3
Other:	Fuel=11.5kl, ObjSize=Average, EMLevel=Faint

   Heavily armed and armored, but not very agile, the Rogh Uerralor makes up 
for this lack by mounting a heavy-duty pulse laser for point defence. It 
doubles as a means to dispose of large numbers of lightly armed vehicles and 
troops without having to engage the main armament. It is controlled by the 
commander but it is usually put in 'auto engage' mode.


VARGR THONGHSUDH ARTILLERY VEHICLE
CraftID:Thonghsudh Artillery Vehicle, TL13, MCr 6.874
Hull:	116/296, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armor=40F, Unloaded=147tons, 
	Loaded=176tons
Power:	31/63, Fusion=142.2MW, Duration=6/18
Loco:	32/47, StandardGrav=885t, NOE=170, Cruise=2295, Top=3060, MaxAccel=5, 
	Agility=0
Commo:	Radio=Planetary, Laser=Planetary
Sensors:EMMask, PassiveEMS=VeryDistant, ActiveEMS=Continental, 
	CounterBatteryRadar=Regional, 10 x Headlights, AdvancedActiveIR, 
	AdvancedImageEnhance, SyntheticVision, ActObjScan=Difficult, 
	ActObjPin=Difficult, PasEngScan=Formidable
Off:	Hardpoints=1, 20cm Mass Driver Howitzer
	Ammo		Pen/		Max	   Auto	Dngr	Signa-
Weapon	Notes	Rds	Att	Dmg	RangeT	   gts	Space	ture	ROF
20cm 	HE	450	30	28	VDist(22)  5	60	Lo	450
	KEAP	-	43/3	21	VDist(22)  5	-	Lo	450
	HEAP	-	54	20	VDist(22)  5	5	Lo	450
	CBM	-	26	20/8(*)	VDist(22)  5	240	Lo	450
	Nuke	-	0.1 to 100kt	VDist(22)  5	special	Lo	450
Def:	10 x Sandcaster, 5 x Smoke
Control:Computer=1 x 2, Panel=Holodynamic link x 66, Environ= basic env, 
	basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
Accomm:	Crew=4 (Commander, Driver, Gunner x 2), Seats=Roomy x 4
Other:	Fuel=11.5kl, ObjSize=Average, EMLevel=Faint

   The purpose of the Thonghsudh artillery vehicle is to defeat point defences 
by overwhelming them with it's high rate of fire. The ammunition is carried in 
a large 54m3 hopper to speed up loading during battlefield condition. The load 
of 450 rounds (usually of one type, mixes has to be prepared at the supply 
site beforehand) is enough for two 225 rounds bombardments, each covering an 
area of 1800m times 1800m (airburst HE).
  (*) Each target in the dangerspace is attacked twice: once for direct hits 
and one for shrapnel hits.

  To score a direct hit on a target in the danger space using cluster bomblet 
   munitions:
   Difficult, GunDM, BombardmentDM , 1 cmbt rd (absolute)
   Referee: The GunDM is +6 for this caliber of gun. The BombardmentDM is +2 
for converged sheaf, -1 for dispersed sheaf, -2 for shattered sheaf. A direct 
hit has a penetration of 26 and does 20 damage. The damage is modified by 
success normally according to the table on Pg 71 in the Players Manual to 
reflect multiple hits.

  To score a shrapnel hit on a target in the danger space using cluster bomblet
   munitions:
   Difficult, GunDM, BombardmentDM, 1 cmbt rd (absolute)
   Referee: The GunDM is +7 for this caliber of gun. The BombardmentDM is +2 
for converged sheaf, -1 for dispersed sheaf, -2 for shattered sheaf. A direct 
hit has a penetration of 8 and does 6 damage. The damage is modified by 
success normally according to the table on Pg 71 in the Players Manual to 
reflect multiple hits.
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2554
Date:     Tue, 9 Jul 91 13:25:47 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Agility

How could I have forgotten?  Among the other subjects I discussed with Tom
Peters of DGP was agility.  I hesitate to bring this up again, becuase it
always gets everyone confused, so I'll skip the "What is Agility??" part and
go straight to the "How is it calculated?" part.  As I have suspected,
the undefined concept of "excess energy" applies to whatever is left over
after the life support and weapons systems are powered, NOT to whatever is
left over after the weapons systems, life support _and maneuver drive_ are
powered.  Thus, overloading your maneuver drive to achieve high agility
in an otherwise sluggish ship, as per Paul Dale's Meson Destroyer design,
is most assuredly not what was intended.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2555
Date:     Tue, 9 Jul 91 13:49:14 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Planetary Invasions Revisited

I'm compiling the discussions on this topic, which have all been well thought
out and interesting so far.  Permit me to retract my comments regarding
guerilla warfare as insufficiently considered, for the moment, and allow me
to make a few clarifications about some of the other implicit assumptions in
the narrative I posted:

Attacker's Superiority:  A numerical and/or 1-2 level technological superiority
on the part of the attacker was assumed, since I was more interested in 
discussing the mechanics of "ground" combat (obviously a bad name for a 
primarily air/near orbit battle) than I was in investigating fleet combat.
Thus the attacker can be beaten by the system's defenders early on, before
they ever get to the mainworld, if conditions are right (e.g. the defender has
numerical or tech level superiority, the defender concentrates all of his
forces instead of guarding all gas giants, whatever.)  We don't have to 
restrict discussion to what happens when the attacker wins the initial
space battle, but it won't shed any more light on the invasion phase.

Invasion vs. Bombardment: We are all agreed that you would only invade to
capture, not to destroy, correct?  Some interesting bombardment techniques
have been mentioned, but they are also divergent.

Planetary Defense Meson Guns:  The prospect of espionage seems to me to make
concealment difficult (perhaps not impossible), but how does anyone think the
Imperium feels about these guns?  Would they allow a planetary government to
build them as part of a secret program, or would they require the locations to
be on file somewhere in case the planet should rebel?  (That could make an
interesting adventure, by the way, whether to penetrate a regional database to
look for data prior to an invasion, or to try to erase the data from a center
in enemy hands.)  If the defending meson gun network cannot be located and it
is extremely capably, the invasion may end at that point.  An attacker _might_
be able to make some headway by flooding the planet with 'expendable' craft
and staying as mixed as possible with the defenders.

Dogfight Phase:  I think that this would be the phase of decision, and that
it would be quite possible for the defender to win here.  I phrased my 
suggestion the other way, so I could offer an opinion on the 'mop up'.  I
do think that it would make more sense for the defender to put everything that
will fly into the air as early as possible, because I think that the pace
of operations will make any imbalance grow rapidly.   If we had just seen a
European War instead of the Gulf War, I don't see the side with the inferior
air force trying to hide it, since it will be eroded piecemeal without being
able to shoot back.  That erosion may be slow, but it would happen, and the
attacker would have the advantage. Thus, even if the defenders are outnumbered,
it would probably be better to fight at odds of 1-3 than to save half your
forces and fight at odds of 1-6 twice.

Mop-Up:  Are we agreed that infantry would only be used for 'low intensity'
portions of the operations? And that ground forces would be devastatingly
outmaneuevered?  (Making the TL12-13 tracked tanks in 101 Vehicles a little
silly...)

Occupation: Ruling a hostile population can only be done as long as that
population remains willing to be ruled.  If every person on the planet agreed
that it would be better to die than to live under Emperor X, then Emperor X
made a mistake in invading that planet because it will probably result in a
net loss of resources for him.  An incorrect assessment of the situation might
cause such an invasion to occur anyway.

Black Globes:  What happens if you turn a black globe on while sitting on a
planet's surface?

This has been a good discussion so far...

Hope you are all having fun.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2556
Date:     Tue, 9 Jul 91 14:18:51 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (2531) Planetary invasions, Tech "smuggling"

> Date: 07 Jul 91 14:36:28 EDT
> From: Leonard Erickson <70465.203@CompuServe.COM>
> Subject: (2531) Planetary invasions, Tech "smuggling"
> 
> Advanced sensor suites may not be as much help as you might think. For
> instance, in Dean McLaughlin's "Hawk Among the Sparrows" we have a TL7
> or 8 fighter/recon plane against TL 5(?) biplanes (think of an advanced
> version of the SR-71 getting thrown back to WW I).
> 
> The pilot discovers to his horror, that his radar & heat guided
> missiles are useless. There's so little metal in the biplanes that the
> radar rejects them as static or decoys. And as for heat seeking, there
> are several orders of magnitude difference between a jet turbine and a
> primitive internal combustion engine.

"Hawk Among the Sparrows" is a great story--I tracked down and purchased
the appropriate 1968 issue of Analog one time to be sure to have a copy
to show to people.  I'd be hesitant to use it as a model for cross TL
interaction in Traveller, though, because many of the problems cropped up
because there was no anticipated _need_ on the part of the aircraft's
designers to allow for meeting biplanes in combat.  A TL14-15 naval architect
in the Imperium _knows_ that his creations might be used against low tech
forces, and can plan accordingly.

> As for guerillas needing to hide weapons, it all depends. What you can
> do with common household items is astonishing. If you allow "safe" 
> industrial items the list grows even more. A certain type of fuel and a
> certain agricultural chemical combine to make an explosive rather
> better than dynamite, if somewhat less stable.  This is why the Army
> has *long* lists of materials that must be controlled if sabotage or
> guerilla warfare are expected.

Well, I'm backing off of my earlier comments on guerilla warfare operations
until I think the subject over a bit more.

> BTW, a trebuchet makes a nice, hard to detect, indirect fire artillery
> piece. It's got quite a range if you are using high TL projectiles.

Yes, I have a warm place in my heart for Anderson's _High Crusade_ too.

> Now as to getting things past TL restrictions, allow me to suggest
> reading "King David's Spaceship" by Jerry Pournelle. To someone at
> TL14, the difference between TL3 & TL4 may be insignificant. To the
> mercenaries on the ground, it is *quite* a difference. 
> 
> Also, given the benefit of a few extra TLs of knowledge, you can do
> some amazing things at the low TLs. I and a friend once drove a GM
> nuts. He'd dropped "us" complete with our knowledge into a fantasy
> medieval world. In short order we were raking in lots of cash with
> things buildable with our knowledge, but that TLs tools. Even with
> medieval "chemistry", things like nerve gas are possible, if you know
> some *real* chemistry. 
> 
> I strongly suspect that some players with a pocket computer containing
> the imperial encyclopedia and some reference works could make
> themselves indispensible on a low TL worldm. And with a bit of luck, 
> make it low like "native" breakthroughs.
>

True enough.  As it applies to the planetary invasion discussion, I don't
think it would make much difference, except to give an invader an occasional
slight surprise.  If modern U.S. forces invaded Anglo-Saxon England, they
might be surprised by nerve gas once, but they already have worked out the
countermeasures, so hopefully the AngloSaxons will make the most of their
one opportunity.

Rob Dean
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2557
Date:     Tue, 9 Jul 91 14:26:39 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (2535) Computer size,  <and Component Volume>

> Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1991 22:11 CDT
> From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
> Subject: (2535) Computer size
> 
> The reason I asked about computers is this:
> 
> Basically, a starship has 3 computers running in parallel.  Each one
> checks the answers provided by the other two.  If one disagrees with the 
> other two, the two out vote the errant one and it is noted.
> 
> If one computer is consistantly giving wrong answers it is shut down and
> says FIX ME!!!
> 
> So, If the volume of a computer is actually the work station volume, then
> in a starship case it shouls only be 1/3 of that.  And a car with computer
> aided control should have less volume because it doesn't have a work
> station right?

I think Scott is correct here.  Starship computers may include workstations
with all the peripherals, but vehicle and fighter control computers will be
specialized for one type of I/O and operation.  Thus, we have to assume that
the volumes given in the rule books are the actual volumes of the computers,
not including hypothetical workstation peripherals.

> Where am I coming from and why am I babbling so:
> 
> Right now, a TL5 car with no computer and a top speed of 100kph
> will perform the same as a TL8 computer with a model 0 at a top
> speed of 100kph.  As far as I can see there is no difference that the 
> rules will generate.  Actually a TL8 car with anti-lock braking smart
> suspension etc will perform much better (I would guess anyway)
> What I am looking for is a small computer that would be usable in a small
> vehicle to get just a lousy +1 in difficulty rolls that doesn't require
> the Cr 900,000 model 1 computer!  Right?
> 
> So all you vehicle theory guys, what do you say?

My first response would be to "wing it", since what you say makes sense.  I
also pointed out recently that having a Model 7 in your grav tank ought to
give you a noticeable +dm in vehicle combat, which is basically the same idea.


<Discussion of maintenance issues deleted>

> Unfortunately, trav designs are a volume critical process.  There are almost
> no designs that have space left over.  It all gets called the cargo bay
> or in some cases the fuel tank.  That means that there is ZERO room left for
> a mechanic to crawl around in an engine compartment.
> 
> Does any of this make sense?

It does.  However, is there anything lost if we make the assumption that the
volume given for a piece of equipment includes the minimum necessary space
around it for maintenance and access?  That would explaing why a lot of heavy
metallic components (like internal combustion engines) get a gross density
equal to that of water...

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2558
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1991 14:32 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Cargo transport modifications

Hi

A few days ago I posted a cargo carrier:  The Deuterium class
It was TL-14 and modifyable to TL13
Here are some uick changes to be made if you want it at lower TL
TL12 Cost:204,447Cr	Unload=38.03, Load=200, Road=133kph, Off=40
Poere=  Fusion=5MW, Fuel=.36, P/W=25

TL11 Cost 204,447Cr Armor=3B, Unload=38.4, Load=200.4, Road=120, Off=37
Fusion see above, P/W=24

TL10 Cost 204,447Cr armor=3B, Unload=41.4, Load=203.4, Road=110, Off=33
P/W=24

Ooops The weights for TL11 are the same as TL10.  I seem to be having trouble
with my computer here...

enjoy,>>|
Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2559
Subject: Re: Submarines & TML to GEnie?
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 8:27:44 PDT
From: Carl Fago <carlf@agora.rain.COM>

First:
> Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1991 14:58 -0500
> From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
> Subject: (2543) Planetary invasions and other things
> 
> This is in response to several notes on a lot of topics:
> 
> First Scott Kellog's sub is a great idea. And I will grant him that
> very few starships have sonar. But generally a sonar will not be
> needed. A meson armed submarine could be detected by several armored
> drones carrying densitometers and a maser, even at 5km depth. Which
> incidently is very rare. Most modern subs have problems getting a mile
> deep and part of the problem is that there are just not that many places 
> that are even close to being that deep.

The statement that modern subs have problems getting a mile deep is correct.
But, the problem is _far_ from having no place a mile deep to go!  Look at
any ocean chart and you'll find plenty of places (most of the ocean) has
numbers over "2000".  That "2000" is fathoms at 6ft per fathom or most of the
oceans over 12,000 ft or greater than 2 miles deep.

The biggest problem for submarines is getting material that is strong enough
to handle the forces at those extreme depths.  Given the materials at the
higher tech levels, this could be done for a military machine though.

But if a world was at a higher tech level with those advanced materials, why
would they need submarines?  I suppose one idea would be that a world was
advanced in tech level with respect to materials but not starship technology
or jump technology.

And as far as these submarines that are being talked about, what powers them?
As far as I can tell, a densitometer wouldn't be the optimal detector.  How
about a neutrino detector.  Any good submarine will have a self-sufficient
power source, i.e. nuclear plant or fusion plant.

> Date:     Mon, 8 Jul 91 16:38:43 EDT
> From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
> Subject: (2545)  Origins and Things
> 
> I am afraid I fell down on the job slightly and missed the Saturday
> Traveller seminar at Origins.  If anyone who was there would like to upload
> a brief discussion of what went on, please do.  Marc Miller said afterwards
> that there wasn't much of importance discussed...

Someone on GEnie posted a summary of the seminar and had some other info.
I'll try to put it on the TML tonight.  I thought it interesting.

> I went ahead and handed out our email information in various places, telling 
> the Traveller 'pros' that we would be all too happy to help them avoid these
> sorts of problems in the future, and otherwise volunteering the use of our
> compiled expertise.
> 
> Is there anyone out there with a very capable computer who could port the
> daily list to GEnie email to send to the DGP and GDW people?  I could theor-
> etically do it, but it would involve downloads and uploads with a 300 baud
> modem and transfer through a capture buffer of only 18K, which is a problem
> for the bigger mailings.  Wilson?  

I might be willing to post the TML to GEnie.  To avoid large expense I might
post whole bundles in the file library rather than a nightly TML download and
subsequent upload to the message area.  For one, they (GEnie) might get
irritated at the _very_large_ message some of the latest TMLs would create!
I would like further input from people on the list prior to this undertaking.
Specifically, the administrator.  {HEY JAMES, YOU OUT THERE??? :-)

Bundle uploads would also save me money since message posts are not free.

- - -- 
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - carlf@agora.rain.com | Time is nature's way to keep |
|             DELPHI - WULFGAR                | everything from happening    |
| Carl Fago   Portland, OR                    | all at once.    -anon.       |
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2560
Subject: Re: TML to GEnie? 
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 91 14:16:22 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


Carl Fago <carlf@agora.rain.COM> writes:
> I might be willing to post the TML to GEnie.  To avoid large expense I might
> post whole bundles in the file library rather than a nightly TML download
> and subsequent upload to the message area.  For one, they (GEnie) might get
> irritated at the _very_large_ message some of the latest TMLs would create!
> I would like further input from people on the list prior to this
> undertaking.
> Specifically, the administrator.  {HEY JAMES, YOU OUT THERE??? :-)

Yo! I'm here, I'm just doing my usual action of keeping my head down on
the list.  I'd hate to be an admin who, like Rush Limbaugh on the radio,
uses the media as an organ for their own personal views, eschewing other
opinions.

There is a limited membership of TMLers who receive the 45kB archive
bundles as they fill up.  This is called the "Bundle Subscription
Service".  You don't get the guaranteed timely (ha!) response of the
digest, but you get the same set of messages in mangageable,
predictably-sized chunks.  This service may be useful to you, Carl.

Isn't there a direct mail link to GEnie? Does host aesd.dnet.ge.com
gateway email to GEnie? How many people on GEnie do you think would read
the TML bundles? And remember, there are now about 200 bundles worth of
TML back-issues - 9MB.  Do we want to add this to GEnie? Yow.  Food for
thought.  The floor is open for disgustion.  :-)

I hope to post a 4-year TML anniversary summary of messages and
membership soon.  It's now a couple weeks overdue.  Anyone else notice
that the TML has gone into high gear in July? Lots of interesting and
fun material.  Keep it coming, folks.

James (I have my two-million factor sunblock on.  How about you?)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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Subject: TML Bundle #209: Msgs 2561-2577
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Status: RO


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Jul 14 21:00:13 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #209: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2561  10-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au In defence of Submarines << Hi, Just reviewin
2562  10-Jul-91 cadpoole@atlas.cs RE: Arnie Supplement (SPOILER, maybe) << I ju
2563  10-Jul-91 cadpoole@atlas.cs RE: Planetary Invasion/Extreme Depth Subs << 
2564  10-Jul-91 bart@cs.uoregon.e CD101 (Re: Terminator: TML biweekly V17#8 msg
2565  10-Jul-91 Cynthia Higginbot modifications to craft design rules << Before
2566  10-Jul-91 Leonard Erickson  Planetary invasions << A few interesting thou
2567  10-Jul-91 Carl Fago         GEnie Origins Report << This showed up on GEn
2568  11-Jul-91 "Alvin M. Chan"   re some terminator questions (2562,2563,2564)
2569  10-Jul-91 torsqnt!alias.com Re: Submarines << > But if a world was at a h
2570  11-Jul-91 ware@arc           << =========================================
2571  11-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Meson Subs & MX missile basing << The biggest
2572  10-Jul-91 matth@earth.njit. Planetary Invasion << [This came to traveller
2573  10-Jul-91 matth@earth.njit. High Technology Questions as in > TL15 << [Th
2574  10-Jul-91 matth@earth.njit. Aliens << [This came to traveller-request@met
2575  11-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Planetary Invasions Revisited << > From: 
2576  11-Jul-91 Cynthia Higginbot re: Planetary Invasions << I am forwarding th
2577  11-Jul-91 Cynthia Higginbot Sikkintar (Flying Knife) SDB/Rider << Again, 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2561
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1991 13:47 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: In defence of Submarines


Hi,

Just reviewing the accusations against my sub.  Well,  She had an operationa
depth of close to 3 km, designed according to George Herbert's rule supp
(Great stuff George!)  At that depth she's going to be below densiometer
range.  She's got continental range passive sonar and the same densiometers
that an attacking drone would have.  She can pick em out before the drones
might.  Any drone that gets within range would need a meson com to say what
it has found, That means big fusion plant so easy detection.
The Sub is powered from geothermal plants so no neutrino emmsissions.

The Sub is FAR below the thermocline layer so EM level is probably ZERO
plus it will be hard to detect by sonar.

Also, the sub is the same gross density as water.  therefore Very hard to
detect in the surrounding medium and indestinguishable from a sunken ship.

Finding standard deep site meson guns:
Well, I still think that LADAR from orbit will be adequate to perform
sizemic analysis, after all you can use the same apparatus to monitor 
conversations in a room by monitoring the vibrations on a glass window
right?  Also remember that that can be done with just a few detection points
Now multiply that by the cubic volume of a densiometer scan and tell me
what you think that will do to increase signal to noise!!!

I really think with adequate computing power it should be a snap to find the
buried sites given the strength of the sensors available.

But here is one question related to the PDI (Psionic Defence Initiative)
How much Power, weight, Volume, Cost should it be to shield a vessel?
Any Ideas?

	Here is a question for you with military experience:

What is a realistic ratio for officers to enlisted for ships/ground forces?

More questions,

Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2562
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 16:09:35 -0300
From: cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Dale Poole)
Subject: RE: Arnie Supplement (SPOILER, maybe)



I just saw Terminator 2 etc. etc. last night, and after word got into
a little tete-a-tete with some friends about the Termintor T-1000.
 
I may have this wrong, but I beleive Arnie told us that our
- - - liquid-metal - friend was made from something called
- - - Mimetic Poly-Alloys -.
 
Given current advances in medicine and computerization, and projecting
a few more years into the future, would it be possible for some
- - - genetic-like - engineering tobe applied to metallurgy/physics/electronics
could you give this liqud metal a genetic capability?

In particular I refer to the T-1000's apparent ability to pull itself
together in extreme situations. (a vague description to purposely avoid
providing too heavy a SPOILER)

This ability is very similar to the idea that each human cell contains
all the information it needs to clone the original it came from.

Considering the Trav milieu, can this kind of Terminator be 
represented?


Dale Poole
cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2563
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 16:10:37 -0300
From: cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Dale Poole)
Subject: RE: Planetary Invasion/Extreme Depth Subs



I can't remember the title of this film....it was one of the recent
disaster in deep sea, but meet a groovey alien, themes.

One of the nifty pieces of tech they used was a deep sea diving suit
in which the wearer breathed an oxygen impregnated liquid, to keep
his lungs from being crushed as extreme depths.

Would it possible to design such a submarine, in which the entire 
- - - atmosphere -  was a liquid.

If such a capability were possible, the sub wouldn't have to be extremely
large and powerful, if the threat of advantage were present in the
ability to maintain and strike from such ocean depths.

Could this significantly change the balance in favour of the defender,
during a planetary invasion?  Is this kind of technology possible
in Trav???

Dale Poole
cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2564
Subject: CD101 (Re: Terminator: TML biweekly V17#8 msg 2542)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 13:21:35 -0700
From: bart@cs.uoregon.edu

> There is no evidence that they are particularly fast on foot,
> and are probably not much faster than a human (TOP=30 kph).

Huh?  In several scenes the CD101 keeps up with a moving TL8
ground transport.  In particular, in one scene it runs alongside
a moving truck, if I remember correctly.  On the other hand, it
doesn't seem to be able to match the top speed of these vehicles --
witness the fact that our heroes finally drove away from it at one
point (once they got the car turned around :-).

I would estimate 30MPH (50KPH) or more.

					Bart Massey
					bart@cs.uoregon.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2565
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 16:52:28 CDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cynthia@CS.MsState.Edu>
Subject: modifications to craft design rules

     Before I start unloading MY collection of vehicle designs on y'all, I'd
like to share some thoughts on...er, modifications to, the vehicle design
systems as it stands in the MT Referee's Handbook.
     Looking at the Armor Type Table, the Jump Drive Table and the Thrust-Based
Suspension Table, we notice an oddity that is not shared with most of the other
tables.  That is the interesting fact that the aforementioned systems do NOT
improve in performance or anything else with tech level.  Yes, you get new
types at various tech levels, but the older variants do not improve once
introduced!  Apparently, a TL 15 Free Trader uses a Jump 1 drive that costs the
same, takes up the same space, uses the same power, and has the same
performance as a TL 9 Free Trader's Jump 1 drive -- except that it requires
MORE controls!  How's that again??
     As for Armor Types, apparently having steelworkers in an early Industrial
era factory roll out your sheet steel is just as cost-effective as having the
TL15 robotic factory fusion-smelt it out of an asteroid, or whatever...Yeah,
sure.  As for Low-Power Hi-Grav and Low-Power Low Grav, apparently in 2000
years (the approximate time since the max Imperial TL was 12) NO ONE, NOT ONE
PERSON, has ever figured out how to produce said units more cheaply. 
Apparently, they were introduced at the ultimate stage of refinement, with no
improvements possible (except for adding on controls as TL increases).  How's
that again??
     Furthermore, this non-existant one person was not able to figure out how
to build Maneuver Drive size Low-Power Grav units for shipboard use either;
they are relegated to vehicle use only.  And I have some swampland on Dinom for
you.  Interested?
     After choking on the above improbabilities, I took out GURPS Ultra-Tech, 
lifted some ideas on equipment/weapon/etc improvement per tech level, and
liberally applied pen and pencil to the more objectionable parts of the Craft
Design Sequence.  I present to you my personal modifications to various tables
in the Craft Design sequence; take 'em or leave 'em as you see fit.

	Armor Type Table: Basically, I halved the price mod 2 Tech Levels above
the TL of introduction.  So my ATT looks like this:

                                Armor Type Table

UCP	TL	Type				Wt mod		Price Mod
- - -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A	5-6	Soft Steel			1.25			1.0
B	6-7	Hard Steel			1.00			1.0
A	7-21	Soft Steel			1.25			0.5
C	7-8	Composite Laminate		0.44			1.8
B	8-21	Hard Steel			1.00			0.5
C	9-21	Composite Laminate		0.44			0.9
D	9-10	Lt Wt Composite Laminate 	0.35			1.6
E	10-11	Crystaliron			0.31			1.1
D	11-21	Lt Wt Composite Laminate	0.35			0.8
E	12-21	Crystaliron			0.31			0.6
F	12-13	Superdense			0.26			1.0
F	14-21	Superdense			0.26			0.5
G	14-15	Bonded Superdense		0.14			1.0
G	16-21	Bonded Superdense		0.14			0.5
H	17-18	Coherent Superdense		0.06			1.3
H	19-21	Coherent Superdense		0.06			0.7

	Jump Drives: I didn't want to tamper with the current set-up TOO much; I
ruled that the price of 3 MCr/unit applied at TL9, and jump drives cost 1.5
MCr/unit thereafter.  I assume the Imperial government and the Megacorps are
artificially supporting the price at a high level; some of the published
material has hinted as much.

	Thrust-Based Suspensions: Get real.  Tracks, Legs (!!), and Wheels all
improve with TL; the variations on Grav should, too.  I improved them by
lowering the price; you get more lift for your buck, as it were.

                      Thrust-Based Suspensions (continued)

	TL		type			Price/ton thrust (rest is same)
	---------------------------------------------------
	11		Low-Power H-Grav		 5,000
	12		Low-Power H-Grav		 3,000
	13		Low-Power L-Grav		50,000
	14		Low-Power L-Grav		 8,000

	Maneuver Drive: I just added the Low-Power Gravs to the Maneuver Drive
Units table.  The prices are derived from the values on the table above; the
rest was worked out by calculating how much thrust one standard anti-grav
maneuver unit was putting out and crunching the numbers for the same
performance from the other grav units.  

	TL		Maneuver Drive Units	Power	Volume	Weight	Price
- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	12		Low-Power H-Grav	13.0	32.5	19.5   750,000
	14		Low-Power L-Grav	 6.5	19.5	13.0  2,000,000 

	
	Oh yes, as Steve mentioned in his essay on Nuclear {fission & fusion}
powerplants last time, fission powerplant fuel consumption is strictly Twilight
Zone material.  We changed the fuel consumption to 0.002 kl/YEAR of
radioactives, not kl/hour!  It is close enough to the real thing to do.  

	The most obvious effect of the above changes is that SHIPS ARE CHEAPER! 
This is much to my liking, as I always thought ships were too damn expensive
and the profits too marginal for anyone to ever justify buying one in the first
place, let alone support the level of interstellar trade implied in the
published material.  There are some interesting effects in ship design in
introducing the Low-Power units; although they have a very high power-to-thrust
ratio, like standard anti-grav, the performance suffers beyond 10 diameters
from a world.  You make trade-offs.  For example, I have a series of very high
performance Interface fighters that use the LPLG units; more room for weaponry,
and more powerplant to run the weapons.  Since these fighters are intended for
near space use, the 10 diameter limit is not important; but, you don't want to
have to use them in a deep space fight!  Conversely, I have a re-working of the
old Sylea class 50-ton heavy fighter that uses thrusters; it's intended for use
as a deep-space, anti-fleet fighter.  I find that it is possible to resurrect
some of the old Traveller designs by use of the power-conservative Low-Power
Grav units; just be sure you really don't high performance in deep space.  For
example, merchant ships at TL 12 or higher will almost certainly mount LP-HGrav
maneuver drives; they aren't in that much of a hurry to get there, and the
savings in power plant volume and cost tends to more than make up for the
increased maneuver drive volume and cost.  I re-designed the Leviathan for MT
using LPHG... and I will post it one of these days.
	Oh yes, I base the control point requirements on the new, reduced costs. 
More efficient designs of old technologies should reduce or at least hold
constant the amount of buttons, switches, etc, etc, etc...it certainly should
not make it more complex, as it does under the existing rules.
	
	Next time, I start posting my ship designs!!

			Cynthia C. Higginbotham

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2566
Date: 10 Jul 91 19:17:13 EDT
From: Leonard Erickson <70465.203@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Planetary invasions

A few interesting thoughts here:

1. Rob, yes, the forces invading Anglo-Saxon England would quickly
adjust to the nerve gas attack. Then come the claymores. Then the radar
decoys, then... :-)

2. Traveller seems to be woefully lacking in kinetic kill weapons. For
instance, something likke the THOR system that was once proposed in the
80's would make a great ground suport weapon for orbital forces. How
*do* you stop what is essential a 5-20 kilo steel bar with *very* 
rudimentary steering and target identification? Especially when it's
coming in at orbital velocity!

3. Deep meson sites. Assuming an earthlike planet (crustal plates over
a fluid mantle), is it possible to design a a "sub-terrene" to house
the meson gun? This would be a *mobile* installation "swimming" thru
the mantle. While at rest, It could attach to the bottom of the crust, 
and use temperature differentials btween the mantle and crust for
power. Or it could use a reactor. Lots of luck getting close enough to
use a densitometer. 
	As for relaying sensor info to meson sites, it may be possible
to *broadcast* the info in some way. Does Traveller allow for neutrino
communicators? If not, other means *are* possible. Say by having the
relay site use a meson gun to cause deep explosions, modulating them
would send sound waves all around the world. Data rate would be low, 
but not impossibly so.

4. Someone made a comment about "you can put a *lot* of lasers on a
planet". This got me to thinking. If every public and commercial
building was required to incorporate a small ground to orbit capable
weapon (say a pulse laser with a low rate of fire), just how bad is
that for the attackers? 
	Using my example, so what if it takes the generator/solar
cellsa/whatever an hour to recharge the laser after every shot? There
are an *awful* lot of them in a fair sized city! Porcupine style
defenses have their points. 
	If the attackers were dumb enough to concentrate their forces
in orbit, a simple set of target co-ordinates over the public
communications channels (phone, cable, broadcast radio & tv) would
likely result in *billions* of pulses arriving in that area. With a
better job of control (more centralized) it might be possible to create
what I'll call a "phased array laser". That would be *really* nasty.
	But even localized control aiming at broadcast co-ordinates
ought to be devastating.



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2567
Subject: GEnie Origins Report
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 17:41:15 PDT
From: Carl Fago <carlf@agora.rain.COM>

This showed up on GEnie the other day:


M.MIKESH                     at 22:07 EDT
 
 Sub: Origins Report
      Marc Miller announced there is serious talk of doing GEnie
 on-line Traveller adventures, perhaps soon. He is very pleased at the
 activity he's seen here on the net (yes, he still reads what we post),
 and is rather excited about prospects.
      Beginning with HARD TIMES, GDW is planning to do a MegaTraveller
 product each quarter.  Most of those will be done in-house or by Chuck
 Gannon, the MTJ Consultant to Challenge.  Products will primarily
 relate to Diaspora Sector or the background for STAR VIKING rather
 than the Rebellion era.  As of last Thursday, Chuck Gannon has a
 contract for DIASPORA SOURCEBOOK, the follow-on to HARD TIMES.
      MTJ2 is out for Origins.  SOLOMANI & ASLAN will go to press in
 just a matter of weeks.  In fact, Mike Vilardi was finishing some of
 the interior illustrations as he sat behind the DGP booth.  (Sharp
 looking stuff!)
                                                                   MIKE

- - -- 
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - carlf@agora.rain.com | Time is nature's way to keep |
|             DELPHI - WULFGAR                | everything from happening    |
| Carl Fago   Portland, OR                    | all at once.    -anon.       |
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2568
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1991 02:43 EST
From: "Alvin M. Chan" <CHAN93%SNYBUFVA.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: re some terminator questions (2562,2563,2564)

as possible replys to some questions posed about the t-1000:

"cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca" asked about... in message 2562 & 2563:
- - -       yes, i think the t-100 was made of 'mimetic poly-alloy' or mimetic
        ____ alloy
        (i have one of the 'behind the scenes' things on vid tape somewhere.

- - -       i was wondering myself about how the being as a whole knew how to
        maintain its program as a terminator, so perhaps its functions are
        ingrained in each molecule like human dna is in humans...

- - -       that movie in the deep sea/meet alien/wear diving suit/breathe liquid,
        it wasnt the Abyss right?  there was another movie i remember that
        came out around the same time...pretty bad.. one seen was one guy
        got crushed under a hatch..monster was like a hairy octopus, at one
        point the ppl were trying to hunt down the monster with shiny stainless
        mossberg 500 mariner shotguns, and one of the characters i think was
        Greg McEvigan who played the trucker BJ in the tv show
        "Bj and the bear?" maybe not.i babbble.i dont remember the title either
        ANYWAYS, that oxygenated liquid does exist, i've seen lab rats swimming
        and breathing in that stuff...the only problem about using that in a
        sub is the mass of the liquid vs air..and pressurizing it...and the
        transmission of sound and other waves that could be harmful to ppl.

"bart@cs.uoregon.edu" asked about... in message 2564
why wont the t-1000 run as fast as a fastmoving car?
well, the cd-100 (arnie) said that it cant simulate moving parts
or machinery...therefore in order to propel itself, you have to imagine
a pirce of metal stretching each leg piece forward with each step, so
maybe there is a limit to how fast it can stretch it self, and how far..
otherwise it would look like that badly drawn cartoon show character
Plasticman (stretch ungodly distances really fast..)...but based on that
description, how does the t-1000 simulate a person? just on outside appearance?
because the human body sure has a lot of moving parts inside...

maybe there should be a terminator newsgroup! 8-)

                                                        - Alv

(pardon the sloppy typing and wording, its late here..i wanted to get this
 out of the way...and back to BEER 8-)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2569
From: torsqnt!alias.com!chk@sequent.UUCP (C. Harald Koch)
Subject: Re: Submarines
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 15:28:34 EDT

> But if a world was at a higher tech level with those advanced materials, why
> would they need submarines?  I suppose one idea would be that a world was
> advanced in tech level with respect to materials but not starship technology
> or jump technology.

Actually, subs can quite useful for all sorts of things. My friend Gerry was
telling me about a high-law level, mid-tech world, that refused to allow
startships to refuel in their oceans. How did they enforce this? Well, a
certain group of PCs suddenly found that their starship had been badly
damaged by a conventional torpedo...

- - -- 
C. Harald Koch  VE3TLA                Alias Research, Inc., Toronto ON Canada
Internet:    chk@alias.com      chk@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu      chk@chk.mef.org
"I think you curdled my Pepsi!"-Gerry Smit, in response to sickening cuteness

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2570
From: ware@arc
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 09:35:00 GMT

=========================================================
  If you are to pop up into a primative society with all
sorts of neat technological tricks, you will probably get
burned as a witch. If you pull something really neat to 
get away (a cloud of tear gas for example) you will only
strengthen their resolve to do you in.
  People (if we are talking about the human variety) do not
react well to the unexplained. Throw in a little religious
neurosis, a dash of demonoic mythology, a bushel of 
superstition and a pinch of xenophobia and you've got a real 
problem.
  The history of earth science shows us how powerful a
deeply entrenched religion (or two) can be. Recall the
persecution of Galileo, the inquisition in general, and the
problems that Jenner faced while doing the first work
with innoculation to prevent smallpox. More recently Bell
was told by investment bankers that they would dissaude
people from investing in telephones because they feared 
adverse public reaction to the technology. 
  Good general rule: people will behave as idiots ruled by
ignorance and fear even when it is not in their best 
interest. Our history is filled with far to many examples
of this fear and loathing of new technology. My grandmother
told me as recently as 1984 that I was ruining my life by
majoring in computer science. "It is obviously just a fad
and will pass. They are too expensive to do any good anyway."
  I am positive everyone has seen this trend at work. There
is always a person in every office who dreads it every time
a new computer is installed, new software arrives or some-
thing changes. This dread stems from a) this person will
be forced to learn something new b) this person may be 
forced to change something about how he does business
c) this person fears that computer will do its job so well
that he will no longer be needed. I have seen cases where
where this fear runs so deep that computers have been
*sabotaged*.
  These are things about human nature that you might well
keep in mind before you whup out some TL 7-15 "magic" 
around people who live at TL's 1-6. Trust me on this one.
I'm a computer professional working in *Mississippi*. I know 
this problem and have only narrowly avoided being burned at
the stake myself.
=========================================================
"A scientist eh!? Get a rope!"
=========================================================
James R. Ware,  SysAdmin 
MS Dept. of Archives
P.O. Box 2424                     Phone:(601)359-6888
Jackson, MS 39225-2424            Fax:(601)359-6905
=========================================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2571
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Meson Subs & MX missile basing
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 18:09:43 MET DST

  The biggest trouble with Meson Subs, as I see it, is that the seas might not
be deep enough to hide them below the range of TL16 densitometers. But those 
sensors spells trouble even for deep meson pits - the environment at below 25km
is decidedly hostile on molten core size 8 planets.

  If it could be handled - the Darrian Abh (or was it Udh?) probe comes to 
mind - the idea of a sub-tectonic sub is nice.

  If it can't be handled, some other means of protecting the sites from 
detection has to be used.

  Someone wrote about using robots to dig random tunnels to the sites, why not
do as in the original MX proposal and have the meson guns on vehicles that move
randomly *in* the tunnels? To keep densitometers from detecting the meson 
vehicle in the tunnel, the tunnel sides are covered with grav-plates. This also
makes moving the vehicle easier. Seismic methods might also be defeated by this,
in a manner similar to 'active sound damping'.
  That the tunnels exist, and where they are, are no secret. Where the meson gun
vehicles are at a given moment is secret, and probably impossible to detect or
calculate if they use atom-decay random mumber generators.
  [Or, perhaps not: "Sir! The enemy is using nuclear dampers on us! All our 
meson vehicles are crowding up at the northen end of the tunnels!"]

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"We're the Imperial Navy destroyer 'Reputation'!"
"Huh? Did you say 'the Imperial Navy destroyed our reputation'?"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2572
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 21:49:50 -0400
From: matth@earth.njit.edu
Subject: Planetary Invasion

[This came to traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com, looks like it was meant for
traveller@metolius.wr.tek.com.  Watch those automatic reply headers! -- James]

There is an easy way to answer the questions about planetary invasion. Have an 
email TML War. Play out one of the Rebellion Battles. Of course you have to find 
someone who is willing to referee such an extravaganza. Personally I don't have 
time. But I think it would be interesting. 

Matt


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2573
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 22:00:47 -0400
From: matth@earth.njit.edu
Subject: High Technology Questions as in > TL15

[This came to traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com, looks like it was meant for
traveller@metolius.wr.tek.com.  Watch those automatic reply headers! -- James]

Hi folks, I am looking for anyone's ideas regarding the following ideas:

   1. Matter Transport, as in Star Trek. 

   2. Fine Tuned Jump Drives: As in the ability to pick the exact location 
      where you will appear in a starbase, as in 1 megakilometer from planet X. 
   
   3. Why is there a natural limit of Jump -6 for starships? 

   4. Cyberpunk: Has anyone tried implementing Cyberpunk in their MT games? 





------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2574
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 22:01:54 -0400
From: matth@earth.njit.edu
Subject: Aliens

[This came to traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com, looks like it was meant for
traveller@metolius.wr.tek.com.  Watch those automatic reply headers! -- James]

Has anyone got a Random Alien Generation system  ? 


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2575
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Re: Planetary Invasions Revisited
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 18:51:56 MET DST

> From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
> Subject: (2555)  Planetary Invasions Revisited
> 
> Invasion vs. Bombardment: We are all agreed that you would only invade to
> capture, not to destroy, correct?  Some interesting bombardment techniques
> have been mentioned, but they are also divergent.

  If I'm allowed to diverge some more: The best method I've heard of would
be to take a random asteroid, install jump and manuever drives on it, let it
accelerate to some awful velocity and program it for a jump to the 100 diameter
border of an enemy planet....
  It depends however on if a jump conserves the movement, and movement relative
to what, but we've already had that discussion once:)
  [Originally it comes from someone on rec.games.frp]
 
> Planetary Defense Meson Guns:  The prospect of espionage seems to me to make
> concealment difficult (perhaps not impossible), but how does anyone think the
> Imperium feels about these guns? Would they allow a planetary government to
> build them as part of a secret program, or would they require the locations to
> be on file somewhere in case the planet should rebel?

  I've seen something called the 'Meson Gun Rebellion' mentioned in some old
traveller papers, which might be a clue that this is a hotly contested question.

> Dogfight Phase:  I think that this would be the phase of decision, and that
> it would be quite possible for the defender to win here.  I phrased my 
> suggestion the other way, so I could offer an opinion on the 'mop up'.  I
> do think that it would make more sense for the defender to put everything that
> will fly into the air as early as possible, because I think that the pace
> of operations will make any imbalance grow rapidly.

  It depends on if we are using modern air-war as the analogy or if we compare
the orbiting ships to modern artillery, and the grav-crafts to modern ground
forces. It makes sense for the defender to stay under cover as long as the 
attacker is out of range of their weapons. I also have my doubts about the 
effectiveness of small grav-crafts when used against naval vessels. Pounding on
the big ships are the tasks of the SDBs, the meson pits and the other space
defence installations. The purpose of the grav-crafts and other small crafts 
is to engage the attackers small crafts and grav-crafts when they appear in the
atmosphere.

  As for why the attacker would risk his small crafts before the defender is
totally neutralized, I can only offer two reasons:

  o  They would want the war over with within a resonable time-frame (To
     begin invading the next world presumably)

  o  It is hard to determine *if* the defender is neutralized unless he is
     forced to react to something the attacker does.

> Mop-Up:  Are we agreed that infantry would only be used for 'low intensity'
> portions of the operations? And that ground forces would be devastatingly
> outmaneuevered?  (Making the TL12-13 tracked tanks in 101 Vehicles a little
> silly...)

  Hmm, I tend to include grav-tanks and lift infantry in 'ground forces'. If we
assume that it is easier to aquire a target in free air than one hugging the
ground it would be possible to have something looking like ground combat:
Both the attackers and the defenders grav forces can't use their entire 
potential because if they ventured too high, they would be blown away. The 
defender by the attackers orbiting ships, and the attacker by the defenders 
space defence lasers installed on every roof.
  [Gives a whole new dimension to 'Home defence':)]

> Black Globes:  What happens if you turn a black globe on while sitting on a
> planet's surface?

  I think that the globe would cut out a half-hemisphere below the generator,
not destroying it, but cutting all drainage pipes, power lines etc. This would
not be an issue if it was done in the wilderness.
  Some messages echoed from GEnie about BG's suggested another effect: That the
globe would begin to absorb kinetic energy from the surrounding molecules of
air or whatever, thereby absorbing heat from the environment until the sinks
are overloaded.
  Maybe there would become an insulating layer of frozen air around the globe
that slows this process, does anyone know the insulating properties of ice
made of oxygen and nitrogene?

> Rob Dean
 
- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2576
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 13:53:58 CDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cynthia@CS.MsState.Edu>
Subject: re: Planetary Invasions

	I am forwarding the following for Steve Higginbotham....

 
Subject : Planetary invasions, defenses, etc.
 
In order for any discussion of planetary invasion to be meaningful, the extent
of the defense forces should be determined.  Using Trin ( one of those lovely
little TL15 Hi Pop worlds so beloved by the Imperium ) as an example, (and, as
usual, using Striker Rule 73, and listings of the Spinward Marches as
references) it is seen that Trin's planetary defense forces (read: Army)
should have a value of MCr 25,872,000.
Given that, for whatever arbitrary reason, we use 10% of that amount for deep
meson sites, and the associated sensors, we come up with :
 
           300 Factor-T meson guns, 
           power plants for same (distributed in small plants throughout the 
                        planetary crust, heavily ECM'ed to prevent detection)
           1,362,727 TL14 passive EMS sensor arrays (and power plants for
                        same) scattered about the planet.
 
By the by, don't forget the near space defense spacecraft, infantry, cavalry,
armor, and other stuff.  They'll be in there, making an invasion unpleasant
and unproductive, too.
 
First, let's look at the sensor platforms and meson sites.  Trin is
Terra-sized, and so has those sensor platforms scattered all over the planet
about 22km apart over the entire surface.  Each of them can spot an object
10,000 meters above the planetary surface to a range of 350+ Km.  Therefore,
each point of the planet's surface is watched over by about 1000 sensor
arrays.  As long as the enemy knocks out less than 99.9% of the sensor net,
reasonably complete coverage can be maintained over the surface.  Any ship
coming within 50,000 Km of the planet can be removed by the combined fire of
300 spinal mount weapons.  Assuming the ships are approaching orbit at 4Gs,
they will be within that range for 26 minutes (plus or minus).  Unless a WHOLE
BUNCH of EXPENDABLE ships are sent at one time, the likely result is total
loss of all ships in that range bracket.
Note also that if the attacker has 12,000 warships, and if each of them
survives to destroy 100 sensor platforms, then the sensor system will be
reduced by 88%, and will still function pretty much as well as at start.
 
Assume 30% of the Army budget buys guys in battledress with FGMP-15s.  Then
you have an army of (about) 57,000,000 guys with FGMPs.  Using the Rebellion
Sourcebook, you get about 25,000,000 guys like that.  VERY difficult to remove
entirely, or even significantly.  Note that the FGMP has a range of 5000 
meters, more or less.  That can keep those attackers nervous, at least, as
they approach ground.
 
Assume another 30% in AFVs (imperial marine standard, from Striker), we get
about 4,000,000 AFVs...  Note that the main gun on an imperial marine grav APC
can punch holes (small ones, at least) in all but the heaviest battleship. 
They can scrape guns off the surface of even those battleships.  Put those
things up to about 15,000 meters, and the effective range of the weapons
become 1054 Km.  Quite adequate for denying orbital space to an attacking
fleet.  Keep them on the ground, and range is 105 Km, which is more than
enough to deny use of airspace near a battlefield.
 
 
Then, there is the system defense fleet.  About 5000 "flying Knives" (stats to
follow at the end of this ramble).  Any one is a match for anything less than
a battleship/battlerider.  Any six can butcher the best battleship in the
Imperium.
 
 
now, discussion.
 
Assuming the classic 3-to-1 odds for a successful assault, the Imperium would
require the resources of seven similar worlds to successfully assault Trin
(note that most of a world's resources are not interstellar capable).  Note
that the spinward Marches includes THREE other worlds similar to Trin.  The
closest (Mora and Glisten) are twelve parsecs away.  Four jumps at Imperial
standard J4 (note that the route must be slightly indirect due to stellar
placement).  That is a six week trip (five if you are lucky and fast).  The
trip from the USA to France in WWI was only three weeks long.  About the same
in WWII (excluding aircraft, which could transport only a small amount of the
needed war materials).
 
Admittedly, the Solomani Rim, for instance, has a great many such worlds
crowded together.  It also has worlds like Terra and Muan Gwi which make Trin
look like a deserted cross-roads at midnight.  Still the same problem, just
more ships, and equipment.
 
 
 
As to tactical (as opposed to logistic) concerns - the "dogfight" described in
an earlier post is wonderful, except that it ignores the possibility of
"stealth" ships for reconnaissance and some combat use.  Note that a such a
vehicle will be included after the "flying Knife".  It also assumes that all
ships follow the GDW pattern of massive offense, trivial defense.  A ship with
heavy defenses and light offenses can survive a lot longer, and cause that
phase of the conflict to last that much longer.  And the longer it takes, the
worse for the attacker.  Note that the defender doesn't really need to knock
out the attacking battlewagons.  it needs to knock out the transports and
landing vehicles.  Saves a lot of wear on the nerves when you can ignore all
the tough parts of the enemy fleet.
 
The "mop-up" phase is another amusing idea that depends on the defender
cooperating.  It assumes that the defender's sensor nets will be destroyed at
a higher rate than the attacker's.  Assuming the defender understands, this,
he can target the attacker's sensors specifically to delay the attacker. 
Remember that anything that stretches the attack out will help that long
supply line to cause the attacker problems.
 
Then there is the "non-existant" guerrilla phase.  Anyone out there care to
guess the most effective weapon for a guerrilla on Trin???  Assuming that a
miracle happens and all the meson sites' sensors are destroyed, the army
destroyed, the world occupied...
 
Gauss rifle?
FGMP?
snub pistol?
 
no.  Try the telephone, instead.
 
Assume that the control computers for the deep-meson guns include a map of the
location of every phone on the planet.  Assume that a phone used to call is
automatically located by the meson gun control system.  Pick up a phone, dial
a number that links to the meson gun control system, tell them that a cruiser
is 12 Km south of you, hang up!  the control determines the position, aims the
guns, and obliterates the cruiser.
Make sure there are a few dozen million numbers that get into the meson gun
control system (there are ten billion possible numbers in the US phone system,
not to mention the overseas connections.  Plenty to spare).  Include a million
or so numbers that require no message - call the number, and the meson guns
obliterate everything within 1000 meters of the calling phone.  The caller
dies, and so do all the enemy troops and ships near him (a good trade if you
are into that sort of thing)
 
 
Note that if planetary invasions were easy, then the five frontier wars would
have included a lot more territory changing hands.  
 
 
And have any of you noticed that during the last few months all the
assumptions about planetary invasions look like Desert Storm?  Last year they
all looked like D-Day.  Strange...  
Has anyone ever tried to play one out, using TCS campaign rules, or other of
your choice.  Try it about six times.  After each trial, rework the attacker
and defender to incorporate lessons learned, or new ideas.  Then, you MIGHT
have an idea of how an invasion works in MT.
 
 
 
And for those of you having a hard time setting up defenses for your TL10
worlds, how about the "treatymaker" (traveller model)? --
 
(designed using Striker laser design sequence)
 
   TL 10
   Type - beam
   Power input - 300,000 MW (same as type T meson gun)
   Fire control to taste
   Mount likewise
   Crew as needed (about 1 plus maintenance men)
   Mass - 19,800 Mg
   Volume - 19,800 Kl
   Price - MCr 1200 (slightly more than the T meson gun)
   Output - 75,000 MW
   Range - (effective) 150,000 Km, (long) 300,000 Km, (extreme) 1,500,000 Km
            NOTE - this range is through atmosphere.  In a vacuum, range is 
                  1000 times listed.)
   Penetration - (effective) 155, (long) 147, (extreme) 137
   Hit Bonus - +2
   Signature - +18,750  (yes, it will be spotted when it fires)
   Number of Targets - 2 (per 30 second turn)
 
Notice that, while extreme, this weapon can punch a whole all the way through
a planetary crust, or destroy any moon nearby (it penetrates in excess of 50Km
of rock)
 
It can also blow a hole 450+ meters in diameter in your average battleship.
Since your average battleship is less than 1200 meters long, over 30% of the
ship would evaporate under that light.  Alas for that former Imperial
battleship.
 
Remarkable digression that, but I've always loved that as an example of an
EXTREMELY powerful weapon.  Consider it as a spinal mount sometime.  Makes a
nice change of pace from the meson guns.
 
 
 
I digressed too much.  The "flying Knife" and stealth ship will follow on
another post.
 
 
                                        Steve Higginbotham
                                         (still kibitzing)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2577
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 13:58:14 CDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cynthia@CS.MsState.Edu>
Subject: Sikkintar (Flying Knife) SDB/Rider

	Again, I am forwarding this for Steve Higginbotham.....

 
The Sikkintar (Flying Knife) class SDB/Battlerider was developed privately by
Vospor/Trin as a vessel which could be used as the riders on the new "Norway"
class Battleship or as a SDB filling the requirements for the X-1111 heavy SDB
as specified by the Trin System Defense Squadron.
As is obvious from the spec sheet, this vessel is designed to fit a large meson
gun on the smallest platform that the requisite defenses could be fitted to.
Basic design assumption was that a spinal mount meson gun was worth more than
ANY possible combination of secondary weapons in a general fleet action.  The
Sikkintar was intended to put more spinal mounts out per MCr than was feasible
using alternate design philosophies.
Note also that the basic concept could be (and is being) upgraded to include a
meson gun-T by increasing the tonnage to 9000, and scaling up whatever needs to
be scaled up.
Note that this ship is designed using standard MT rules (plus any good idea that
came across the TML), not our house rules.  Note that the original design used
last edition High Guard, which made the design much easier.
 
CraftID: Sikkintar (Flying Knife) class SDB/Battlerider      Cost: MCr 7263
                                                             (not counting
                                                                     missiles)
Hull: 6300/15750, Disp=7000, Config=1SL, Armor=40G, 
	 Unloaded= 103,468 tons, Loaded= 116,328 tons
 
Power: 1481/2962 Fusion=95,000 MW, Duration= 27/81
             Fusion=310,000 MW, Duration=(at full power) 6/18
 
Loco: 1071/2142 Maneuver=6 G, Agility=6
 
Commo:  Radio=Far orbit x6, Laser=System x6, Maser=System x12
 
Sensors: ActiveEMS=far orbit x2, PassiveEMS=Interstellar x12, Densitometer=HiPen
         x6, Densitometer=LoPen x12, Neutrino Sensor=10 kW x12,
	ActObjScan=Rout,ActObjPin=Rout, PassEngScan=Simple, PassEngPin=Rout
 
Off: Hardpoints=90
     Meson gun=N00
 
     Missiles=090
     Batt =   020
     Bearing= 020
 
     Missile Magazine = 1 50t bay, capacity = 6750 missiles
 
Def: Def DM +15
     Meson Screen - 9
     Nuclear Damper - 9
 
Control: ECP, Computer=9(fib)x3, Panel=Hololink x1945, Special=LargeHoloDisp x3,
         HeadsUpHoloDisp=5, Environ=BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtLS, GravPlates,
         Airlocks x12
 
Accom: x (Cc =18, Cb=12, Ce=17, Cm=0, Cg=52, Ct= 30, Cf=0, Cs=4, 2xCf=19, Cd=2),
       Staterooms=70, LowBerth=40, EmergLowBerth=34
 
Other: Fuel= (refined) - 2000 kl, (unrefined{ammonia}) - 18000, ObjSize=Large,
       EMM, EmLevel=Moderate
       Fuel refinery (capacity 2000Kl/6hrs)
 
       Cost of one full loadout of nuclear missiles - MCr 1027.5
                                   Standard missiles - MCr 137
 
 
 
 
                                        Steve H.

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End of TML Bundle
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